Modus Operandi and Signature

[NOV9]

The digestive system

1: Food passes from mouth to stomach approx., 10 seconds.

2: From the stomach to the small intestines approx., 3 hours.

3: From the stomach to the middle of small intestines approx., 6 hours.

4: From the stomach to the large intestines approx., 18 hours.

5: From the stomach to the colon approx., 32 hours.

This is common knowledge for forensic studies.
It is used for time line study.

Please excuse my spelling, and grammar, my apologies to those that might be offended by it.

NOV9

[Stephen Thomas]

Please excuse my spelling, and grammar, my apologies to those that might be offended by it.
NOV9

Hi NOV9

Nothing at all wrong with the spelling and grammar there, though the commas after the abbreviation full stops may be deemed by some people as unnecessary .

[NOV9]

Hi NOV9

Nothing at all wrong with the spelling and grammar there, though the commas after the abbreviation full stops may be deemed by some people as unnecessary .

Thanks for the input, I'll try to watch for them.

NOV9

[Doctor X]

No! USE the commas!!!

All of the COOOL people use them. . . .

--J.,D.

[NOV9]

No! USE the commas!!!

All of the COOOL people use them. . . .

--J.,D.

Hey,

I, asked, you, for, the, information, about, the, digestive, system, and, you, did, not, reply,Doc,

Wether,you,like,it,or,not,have,a,nice,weekend,

NOV9,

[Doctor X]

Hey,

I, asked, you, for, the, information, about, the, digestive, system, and, you, did, not, reply,Doc,

Sorry, I must have missed the question. I will look for it.

--J.D.

[Doctor X]

. . . and I see not your question directed to me.

Can you link to it?

Thanks,

Yours curiously,

--J.D.

[FrankO]

Hi c.d.,

But take this football analogy (and I mean the real kind not the other kind where you wear shorts, if you get my drift)---let's say a team has a reputation for running the football, I mean really pounding it up the middle. Very physical. That's their signature or MO. But now they play a team where the defense is much faster and bigger than they are used to. They get nowhere running the ball so now they are forced to pass. In other words, they adapt to the situation. So where you see Jack being inconsistent and maybe not Jack, I simply see him adapting to the situation and doing what he needs to do.

In your analogy, which is a nice one, one might say Jack was driven by his desire to score. This would lead to his signature, the scoring itself. How he got there, would be MO and could change, depending on the situation. So, in your example the very physical pounding up the middle wouldn't be signature, but 'only' MO. Or at least, that's the way I see it.

All the best,
Frank

[Mitch Rowe]

I dont like the idea of MO and Signature being define as if they were two separate and distinct acts.
The way I define Signature is akin to a handwritten Signature.
The goal is to write your name but along the way you are making un/semi/consious decisions wich are affecting the way the ink meets the paper.
I refrain from imagining what JTR did but I use the results of what he did to evaluate whether I see some kind of Signature.

Example:
Part of JTRs MO is to kill the Women. A Signature he leaves behind while doing so is the deep cuts to the throat.
JTR could have chose to kill old invalid Women and mutilated them as his MO.
JTR chose Prostitutes instead. Thats a Signature.

[perrymason]

But take this football analogy (and I mean the real kind not the other kind where you wear shorts, if you get my drift)---let's say a team has a reputation for running the football, I mean really pounding it up the middle. Very physical. That's their signature or MO. But now they play a team where the defense is much faster and bigger than they are used to. They get nowhere running the ball so now they are forced to pass. In other words, they adapt to the situation. So where you see Jack being inconsistent and maybe not Jack, I simply see him adapting to the situation and doing what he needs to do.

c.d.

Hi cd,

Better watch that Football innuendo bud....this could get ugly fast.

Seriously though, using your analogy framework, I think if a team has been successful throwing the ball all season...like the Pats were..when they go into the playoffs, they will rely on the strengths that got them there...if they are there to win.

I believe JtR had no intentions of losing a selected victim, or being caught, so Im inclined to see the Cut off Air-Lower to Ground-Then cut throat a sequence as his "winning" formula if you will.

None obviously defended themselves,... except Mary, none were able to summon help verbally,....all were flat on their backs after being lowered...except Liz, .... and he even controlled where the blood would spray when he cut the throat...away from himself. And to finish...not one fumbled getaway.

I can see using a long and a short knife alternatively, or choosing different organs to take, or adding injuries never before seen......to that point, Dan Norder has made some interesting comments that a murder including facial mutilations occurred between Annie and Kate, and had renderings of the wounds printed in the paper, ....

returning to the point.....I would think a man who kills in public outdoors either wants to be caught, or for some reason has to, or chooses to, commit the crimes in public....but has no intentions of being caught, and is careful in that respect.

Maybe not careful while excising Kates uterus, but careful enough to escape detection with bloody organs in a square that has 2 of 3 exits patrolled steadily.

Cheers cd...hope the knee is mending.

[FrankO]

Hi Mitch,

I dont like the idea of MO and Signature being define as if they were two separate and distinct acts.
The way I define Signature is akin to a handwritten Signature.
The goal is to write your name but along the way you are making un/semi/consious decisions wich are affecting the way the ink meets the paper.
I refrain from imagining what JTR did but I use the results of what he did to evaluate whether I see some kind of Signature.

Maybe you are right. The only thing is that, in the case of the Ripper, it's impossible for us to decide for all the acts if they were done purely as a means to an end and which only belonged to that end. As far as I'm concerned, some acts may have been in the 'gray area': they were basically done for practical reasons, but, as a 'by-product', he enjoyed doing them anyway.

I think that signature acts are connected to phycological gain, while MO isn't. But that would be my definition. You seem to be bring an interesting addition to the table. If I'm not mistaken, you (would) say that serial killers who have exactly the same phycological needs and fantasies, may practically do things slightly differently in the exact same circumstances and that that's (part of) their signature.

If so, I may agree with your example no. 1, although I can imagine that the adrenaline racing may have caused any person cutting a throat under the exact same circumstances may have cut as deep as the Ripper did. On the other hand, I can also imagine that cutting the throat like he did had some special meaning to him. Maybe he did it because whoever ultiamately caused him to kill like he did had offended him deeply by saying something and maybe the cutting of the throat was important in the sense that that way he symbolically cut her vocal cords. Who knows?

JTR could have chose to kill old invalid Women and mutilated them as his MO.
JTR chose Prostitutes instead. Thats a Signature.

Since prostitutes were simply easily accessible and quite practical for the Ripper's needs - they were expected to take you to quiet spots and the only thing you needed to do was show a fourpence - I don't think we can state that the choosing of prostitutes was signature.

All the best,
Frank

[Septic Blue]

But take this football analogy (and I mean the real kind not the other kind where you wear shorts, if you get my drift)

Yours would be the kind with the stolen name, in which the players wear skin-tight spandex pants that accentuate every curvature and jiggle of the fat asses that are stuffed inside them. A queer ritual, if ever there was one !!!


Colin

[Stephen Thomas]

Yours would be the kind with the stolen name, in which the players wear skin-tight spandex pants that accentuate every curvature and jiggle of the fat asses that are stuffed inside them. A queer ritual, if ever there was one !!!
[ATTACH]1260[/ATTACH]

Yes indeed, Colin. You forgot to mention the shoulder pads and motorbike helmets. Not for nothing does the entire rest of the world see 'American Football' as a game for pansies.

[Doctor X]

Just because getting sodomized by the Head Boy is part of your rugby culture . . .

. . . that and boiled beef . . .

. . .

. . . and toilets that cannot flush more than once . . .

. . .

. . . and central heating.

--J. "About that Sea Power?" D.

[perrymason]

To address a point Frank was making, it would seem the most simple explanation for his choice of prey relates to their common "employment", as there is 20 years age difference, and women who were attractive, and perhaps not so,... among the youngest and oldest canonicals. If he had a "type", it was just a living street whore. Old-young, Fat Skinny, Healthy-Sick, he was an equal opportunity butcher.

Their job has them out late at night, their work takes place in the dark alone with a client, they can be approached without apprehensions...because thats how they make a living in the first place, they are very possibly unwanted and have few family or friends...hence their desperate plight due to no help from others....and many wore something he could use to grab and choke them with when attacking, scarves. Many brothels had been shut down in the East End in 1888, due to a Morality campaign by a fellow named Frederick Charrington...so many brothel girls were also put out on the streets.

Most are not what could be described as robust and healthy, they were underfed, over boozed, and likely no match for a healthy strong man under 40.

No-one cared about them.....if he had done these crimes on Nuns for example, would anything have been different in terms of investigations? I think the residents were on one hand, saddened for these women and their demise, and on the other, sickened that these women sullied the streets at night doing their immoral work, soliciting the husbands and fathers of the neighborhoods. What did a sweat shop lady, who worked 10 or 12 hour days in disgusting conditions to earn less than a working whore would make bending over a few times a night, think of these unfortunates?

That being said, its interesting to note that the above addresses where the whores were, and why, so therefore why they were his "focus"...but it doesnt seem to jive with what we have on record occurred concerning Mary Kelly, where she likely was, what she was likely doing, and therefore how she most likely met her killer.

Best regards.