Modus Operandi and Signature

[JSchmidt]

Because we seem to drift off about these topics in quite some threads, I'd suggest we discuss these two aspects in one topic of their own.
As I'm only reading up on stuff so far I will now leave the center stage to those who are willing to discuss their definitions and theories.

[Doctor X]

The problem I have with "signatures" is they imply that a killer cannot develop a technique or must always follow the same pattern.

On the other hand, a killer is likely to stick to what works.

I see more trends than signature.

--J.D.

[NOV9]

Understanding a signature

"Understanding a signature involves behavioral analysis: specifically, examining what a perpetrator does at a scene that's unnecessary to accomplish his or her goal and that appears to be performed to meet some inner personal need."

Dr. Robert D. Keppel

[NOV9]

Was it ritualistic, poising the bodies? MO or signature?

Jack strangled the unfortunates, and did not let the bodies fall to the ground, the absence of bruising to the back of the head. Then he cut the throat.

So why would he take care not to let them fall? Considering how brutal he was in cutting them up.

In what direction did he position the head? In reference to the top of the head, was it facing North, South, East, or West?

Everything he did seems to be ritualistic, poising the bodies, turning their head to face a certain direction.

NOV9

[Doctor X]

Same reason he strangled them at first--to make sure they were dead. Let go, you are not sure. Strangle until they collapse and finish.

--J.D.

[kensei]

Jack strangled the unfortunates, and did not let the bodies fall to the ground, the absence of bruising to the back of the head. Then he cut the throat.

So why would he take care not to let them fall? Considering how brutal he was in cutting them up.

NOV9

Annie Chapman did fall. The next door neighbor to 29 Hanbury Street heard the sound of her body falling heavily against the fence.

Elizabeth Stride not only fell but was seen being forcefully thrown to the ground by her attacker.

[NOV9]

Annie Chapman did fall. The next door neighbor to 29 Hanbury Street heard the sound of her body falling heavily against the fence.

Elizabeth Stride not only fell but was seen being forcefully thrown to the ground by her attacker.

The next door neighbor to 29 Hanbury Street heard the sound of her body falling heavily against the fence.

The next door neighbor can not be sure if the body fell or was pushed up against the fence, unless she saw for herself what had happened.

[NOV9]

Same reason he strangled them at first--to make sure they were dead. Let go, you are not sure. Strangle until they collapse and finish.

--J.D.

Sounds more like he needed to be in control, strangled until they fell unconscious, then cut the throat while they were on the ground so that the blood would not spray on himself.

NOV9

[NOV9]

Annie Chapman did fall. The next door neighbor to 29 Hanbury Street heard the sound of her body falling heavily against the fence.

Elizabeth Stride not only fell but was seen being forcefully thrown to the ground by her attacker.

Why did Jack change his MO by throwing Stride to the ground?
I'm just thinking out loud here, I'm not expecting you to answer.

[NOV9]

Jack's hands were very strong

In order to be in control after the trap was sprung, Jack would quickly grab his victim by the throat, which would silence the call for help, and at the same time cause confusion and fear, using only one hand to control them shows considerable strength in his hands, Jack would wait until the victim fell unconscious, then he would lower the body to the ground before he cut the throat so as not to get the spray of blood on himself.

My belief is that every cut he made was a conscious effort on his part, and a reason for every cut was his signature, with limited time to dispose of his victim he would not make any unnecessary cuts that would take up his precious time.

NOV9

[Doctor X]

Sounds more like he needed to be in control, . . .

Mayhaps I miss your point, but I think most, if not all, serial killers need to be in control. To me, it appears first the strangulation then neck cut--then just neck cut--is a means to an end rather than a signature.

I may be fixating on a minor point and misunderstanding your overall drift.

For example, Eddowes demonstrates that Jack was not that meticulous in planing his cuts.

--J.D.

[Damien]

Hi

Modus Operandi are the things done by a murderer to do his work, e.g. the way of treating his victims, planning, organisation...for every murder has individual circumstances, the murderer has to change his M.O. to get his "goal".
A Signature is some kind of an additional expression of his fantasies and the reason he committs the crime. Unlike the Modus Operandi the signature is a very intimate aspect of the crime. A signature close to the fantasies of the murderer will not be changed rapidly - but it is not static and unchangeable. Fantasies can grow and other aspects can be added. Just compare Chapman and Eddowes - what about those injuries in the face? They are definitely no part of the Modus Operandi, but they also never appeared on victims before.

My oppinion.

Kind Regards, Damien

PS: Oh my god...I hope you understand me...my english skills are

[Doctor X]

Indeed to your points.

Incidentally, you write far better than many of those for whom English is a "native tongue."

Seriously!

If you post a lot on English language fora, use the browser Firefox. It has an automatic spelling check you can set for English.

Otherwise, welcome to the forums!!

Two drink minimum. . . .

Yours truly,

--J.D.

[Dan Norder]

Hi Damien,

Welcome to the boards.

Fantasies can grow and other aspects can be added.

This is absolutely true... which is why it's difficult to specify when a certain fantasy would have been expressed for the first time, or when the fantasy would have been developed but not yet expressed.

Just compare Chapman and Eddowes - what about those injuries in the face? They are definitely no part of the Modus Operandi, but they also never appeared on victims before.

Here's a new bit of information on that: It turns out that there was a Ripper-like murder between those of Chapman and Eddowes that featured facial mutilations, and it was covered in the newspapers mere days before the Eddowes murder.

[NOV9]

Hi

Modus Operandi are the things done by a murderer to do his work, e.g. the way of treating his victims, planning, organisation...for every murder has individual circumstances, the murderer has to change his M.O. to get his "goal".
A Signature is some kind of an additional expression of his fantasies and the reason he committs the crime. Unlike the Modus Operandi the signature is a very intimate aspect of the crime. A signature close to the fantasies of the murderer will not be changed rapidly - but it is not static and unchangeable. Fantasies can grow and other aspects can be added. Just compare Chapman and Eddowes - what about those injuries in the face? They are definitely no part of the Modus Operandi, but they also never appeared on victims before.

My oppinion.

Kind Regards, Damien

PS: Oh my god...I hope you understand me...my english skills are

Damien,

You are on the button with signature.

You said "A signature close to the fantasies of the murderer will not be changed rapidly - but it is not static and unchangeable ."

My question is why would he change something, which is important to him?
Signature is his soul.

Fantasies may change, because the fantasies failed him, fantasies in his mind are perfection, but reality is not. He would never see his fantasies come about.
So he may change his MO to achieve the fantasies, but only to see them fail again.

Signature will never change MO and Fantasies will change.

My opinion is that Jack killed only 3 unfortunates in the Whitchapel area before his arrest, or he was killed in a fight or trying to rob someone. (There is a lot of heat to be taken for this statement.)

Apparently I am the one that they are talking about, the one that can not spell, or my grammar su*ks.

Nice to have you aboard Damien

NOV9