Warren's Toff-Theory

[Tom_Wescott]

Of course, we're assuming Warren actually said the things the French reporter says he did. Seems a little candid to me.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DVV]

Warren, the reward and the press

The end of the same article (La Presse, 8 Octobre 1888).
Very interesting, regarding the reward offered by the City Police, and Warren's "official" opinion about it (in flat contradiction with his letter to Matthews, dated 6 October).

Journalist: "Pensez-vous que cet appel au dévouement interessé des citoyens, que j'ai lu sur les murs de Londres, puisse vous aider dans vos recherches ?

CW: C'est possible : mais nous n'encourageons pas des sortes de dévouements interessés. Sans doute le système préconisé par la police de la Cité - une police absolument indépendante de la nôtre - a du bon, mais il est néanmoins plus nuisible qu'utile.Le gouvernement et la police métropolitaine y sont absolument opposés."

Sir Charles Warren m'a exprimé le désir, lorsque j'ai pris congé de lui, de ne pas voir publier son interview. C'est trop de modestie de sa part. Il a été trop aimable pour que je ne le remercie pas ici de l'accueil des plus affables qu'il m'a fait.
Il m'a dit n'avoir jamais eu d'interview avec les journalistes. Ce sera donc le premier et j'espère qu'il ne le regrettera pas.
Dans les affaires comme celles de Whitechapel, trop de lumière n'est pas un mal, et sir Charles Warren ne me reprochera pas de l'avoir fait trop parler."

[Phil Carter]

David,

I have attempted to translate this, hopefully Chris or Norma will correct my terrible translating abilities! I have had all sorts of problems with CW's first comment...as I can make little sense of it.

Journalist: " Do you think that this appeal to the interested devotion of the citizens that I read on the walls of London, can help you in your researches?

CW: It is possible: but we do not encourage these kinds of devotion. Probably the system recommended by the police of the City - an absolutely independent police of ours - has to be checked, but it is however more harmful than useful. The government and the metropolitan police are absolutely compared there.

Mr Charles Warren expressed upon me his wish, when I took leave of him, not to see the published interview. It is with much modesty on his part. It was so kind of him that I do cannot thank him enough for the reception he gave me, I being of such insignificance amongst others.

He has told me he never has had interviews with journalists. This will be therefore the first and I hope that he will not regret it.
As with such things as those of the Whitechapel business, too much light is not an evil, and Mr Charles Warren will not reproach for me for having made the information as open as I have. "

best wishes

Phil

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Phil,
Have only just seen this and will come back to it later.But my take on it is slightly different .
My take on it is that Warren has been asked by the reporter what he thinks about this appeal that the reporter has read about .Notices have apparently been posted up on walls by the City of London Police asking for help to catch the murderer[Btw---I didnt see the bit about a "reward" or any remuneration ].Warren demurred.He then pointed out the City of London Police was a separate body from the Met and completely independent.He goes on to say that both the government and the Metropolitan police were in agreement over this and were completely opposed to it,believing it would do more harm than good.

The rest of the statement deals just with Warren"s generosity towards the journalist since he understands its Warren"s policy not to give interviews to journalists---this being a first!

Best
Norma

[DVV]

Hi Norma,

"Dévouement intéressé" is idiomatic and ironical: it refers directly to the reward (I should have explained it above). It's in fact a periphrasis for it : "devotion in order to get money (of the reward)" and alludes to the City Police initiative, severely disapproved by the Met and the government, as you've pointed out.

Amitiés,
David

thanks for the translation, Phil. I could say: ta traduction "désintéressée" (ie: not motivated by financial gain).

[Phil Carter]

Hi Norma, David,

My translation on another thread of Swedish is far more accurate! Thanks for putting me right on this one!.. I'll stick to the Scandinavian in future..LOL

best wishes

Phil

[Natalie Severn]

Not at all Phil.The bit about the reward, as David points out, is idiomatic and built into a phrase that has no direct parallel with English,so the meaning can be thrown.
Anyway I find it very interesting to see Warren"s direct criticism of the City of London Police.Well I think I know why he is so emphatic! Isnt it most likely that the acting Commissionerfor the City of London Police,Henry Smith, who took a cab to Mitre Square as soon as he was told about the murder [of Catherine Eddowes] was furious about Warren ordering it to be erased....he wrote about how angry he was that such a crucial clue had been so completely lost .So Warren is taking an opportunity to lash back----in a subtle back hander to a French journalist!
Best
Norma

[DVV]

Mr Charles Warren expressed upon me his wish, when I took leave of him, not to see the published interview. It is with much modesty on his part. It was so kind of him that I do cannot thank him enough for the reception he gave me, I being of such insignificance amongst others.
Phil

Hi Phil,

what I've underlined is the only misunderstanding, and as you see, it's completely unimportant.
The sentence simply reads: "He has been so amiable that I just can thank him for his most affable reception."

In other terms: Norma is right, you made a very good job.

Amitiés,
David

[Phil Carter]

David, Norma,

How very generous of you both, many thanks!.. though I admit that I have realised that translating Scandinavian (Swedish, Norwegian and Danish) is far easier for me today than French, but in my defence Warren's comments were a little confusing, if not the way in which they were written, in French, by the journalist.
The Swedish translation about Liz Stride took half the time even though it was a much longer article!

with best wishes

Phil