There is no Jack the ripper

[corey123]

I forgot, Abberline wasnt just head of the detectives on theground in The jack the ripper murders but also the Yorkshire Ripper murders.

Old Abber.

[DVV]

Not exactly so, but he came forward.
You see the result.

Amitiés,
David

[Phil Carter]

even after her murder, attributed to a copycat killer by Phillips and to the Ripper by Bond, the whole police stuck to their beliefs that JtR had killed at least 4 women in 1888.

Amitiés,
David

Hello David,

Exactly.

best wishes

Phil

[protohistorian]

Those who theorize several Jacks within the canon (at least 3, I mean) should try their method investigating other cases as if they were still unsolved.
They would unearth several Kempers, I'm afraid. Many Bundys.
Peter Sutcliffe would be a village.

Amitiés all,
David

So there is no possibility of domestic violence and inconsistency in mode of attack and venue of attack account for nothing, but you go even further and suggest the demonstrable effects of the press in creating a singular identity also counts for nothing! Yea, all murders are the work of he who's name cannot be spoken, or even better the devil! Dave

[DVV]

but you go even further and suggest the demonstrable effects of the press in creating a singular identity also counts for nothing! Dave

Hi Dave,

what are you talking about ?
Once more, the WHOLE police did believe in one individual for at least 4 murders (within the canon, of course), and it's just a non-sense to believe that they had all been misguided by the press in this respect.

Amitiés,
David

[protohistorian]

I think we can safely conclude that the police of the time had a piss poor grasp of the reality. I would not extend any of their conceptions into what is now a more thoroughly understood domain of human behavior. Let us not forget that the police also possessed opinions like the ripper was a Jew and a socialist. I certainly get both these features from examining the data regarding victims. We can quite simply not detach the police conceptions from their preconceived, and mostly culturally bound values. It is readily apparent that their estimation of the case was heavily influenced by their cultural biases, perhaps even more so than by the evidence of the victims bodies, the crime scenes, the mode of attack, or the degree of mutilation. Respectfully Dave

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Dave,

what are you talking about ?
Once more, the WHOLE police did believe in one individual for at least 4 murders (within the canon, of course), and it's just a non-sense to believe that they had all been misguided by the press in this respect.

Amitiés,
David

David,

There was certainly a lot going on at the time that might have provided a diversion from the dangerous revelations about the activities of Robert Anderson and co with regards to the trashing and of the Irish MP Parnell and Prime Minister Salisbury"s and Anderson"s plotting using Government spies such as Le Caron to destroy all hope of Home Rule. in Ireland .So no doubt these men would have been thankful for the massive press coverage generated by the crimes of Jack the Ripper to divert public attention away from their sinister activities.But thats a far cry from suggesting there was no Jack the Ripper!Ofcourse there was a serial killer murdering and mutilating "unfortunates" in Whitechapel in 1888,just as there was a serial killer in Yorkshire doing the same in the 1970"s and a serial killer murdering "unfortunates" in Ipswich in 2007.

Best

Norma

[DVV]

I think we can safely conclude that the police of the time had a piss poor grasp of the reality. I would not extend any of their conceptions into what is now a more thoroughly understood domain of human behavior. Let us not forget that the police also possessed opinions like the ripper was a Jew when they had no idea who he was. Respectfully Dave

Agreed, Dave,

but it's another matter.
Since they didn't catch the man, they developped opinions about his identity just like we do now - with uncertainty, whatever our or their claims.

The question of a lone killer/several copycat killers is fundamentally different.

I'd add that I was merely answering a post that told us about "differences" between the canonical murders, and said that these differences were enough to make a "several killers theory" the most likely one.

To this, I replied that with the same methods, we would unearth many Kempers, Sutcliffe, etc.
For their victims, weapons, etc, were far more diverse than the Ripper's.

Amitiés,
David

[corey123]

Norma,

I wouldnt think that they enjoyed the press coverage. All the Ripper letters that were handed in to them, the humiliation of not being able to catch the murderer. All this things would, if Im correct, upset the police.

Also the outrage the citizens were making.

[DVV]

David,

There was certainly a lot going on at the time that might have provided a diversion from the dangerous revelations about the activities of Robert Anderson and co with regards to the trashing and of the Irish MP Parnell and Prime Minister Salisbury"s and Anderson"s plotting using Government spies such as Le Caron to destroy all hope of Home Rule. in Ireland .So no doubt these men would have been thankful for the massive press coverage generated by the crimes of Jack the Ripper to divert public attention away from their sinister activities.But thats a far cry from suggesting there was no Jack the Ripper!Ofcourse there was a serial killer murdering and mutilating "unfortunates" in Whitechapel in 1888,just as there was a serial killer in Yorkshire doing the same in the 1970"s and a serial killer murdering "unfortunates" in Ipswich in 2007.

Best

Norma

Thanks Norma,

in French your post would be qualified as "clair, simple et précis".
Tout simplement!

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

Norma,

I wouldnt think that they enjoyed the press coverage. All the Ripper letters that were handed in to them, the humiliation of not being able to catch the murderer. All this things would, if Im correct, upset the police.

Also the outrage the citizens were making.

Hi Corey,

Norma wasn't referring to the "ground" police, but to those implicated with politics, and to politics themselves.

Amitiés,
David

[corey123]

Oh, Gotcha.

thanks

[protohistorian]

Agreed, Dave,

but it's another matter.
Since they didn't catch the man, they developped opinions about his identity just like we do now - with uncertainty, whatever our or their claims.

The question of a lone killer/several copycat killers is fundamentally different.

I'd add that I was merely answering a post that told us about "differences" between the canonical murders, and said that these differences were enough to make a "several killers theory" the most likely one.

To this, I replied that with the same methods, we would unearth many Kempers, Sutcliffe, etc.
For their victims, weapons, etc, were far more diverse than the Ripper's.

Amitiés,
David

Agreed sir, we must proceed with caution in theorizing multiple killers. To be sure I would not say that multiple killers was the most likely. There remains however, based on our scant data, the distinct fact that at least two victims (Stride and Kelly) had substantial connections to individuals we cannot exclude from using violence as a relationship mechanism. It so happens that these two victims also display the most significant departure from the other 3 victims in the canonical series. I would submit that given the vivid descriptions in some of the press, anyone possessing a desire to kill a woman of the unfortunate class, had enough information to go on to confound the police's efforts in detection. Respectfully Dave

[perrymason]

I think Phil's agreement slid by unnoticed....but I believe he was agreeing that there was a consensus to a large degree about how many women "Jack" killed.....not that the confirmation of that statement then assures its accuracy.

Considering their position, Im not surprised that the Whitechapel Murderer file includes crimes that were certainly not by Jack the Ripper and ones they claim were connected without any supporting evidence to back that up.

We have senior men suggesting some years after the fact that the killer committed suicide, that he died in an institution, and that he was never caught. These same senior men give you your Canonical Group. Yet they cannot agree on whether he was caught or not.

Any information we have from them on these cases is confusing to say the least, and often misleading. I think the validity and integrity of the sources for your Canonical Group is far from established. Unless of course they had to suggest some unfounded things.

Its not as if we only have 5 killings to look at during the period in question, is it?

Best regards

[lynn cates]

associations

Hello Proto.

"There remains however, based on our scant data, the distinct fact that at least two victims (Stride and Kelly) had substantial connections to individuals we cannot exclude from using violence as a relationship mechanism."

Right. At least two. I wonder what kinds of people Kate knew and associated with?

The best.
LC