A French connection

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

I wondered if anyone could tell me the exact known origins as to how the Mary Kelly photo, MJK1, was first published in a book in France, and if there are any known connections between the French author and anyone related to the Whitechapel murder case?

best wishes

Phil

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Phil. I haven't read Robert McLaughlin's wonderful book 'The First Jack The Ripper Photographs', in a few years, but the answer is probably there. If you don't have a copy, you might try PMing him on here.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Phil Carter]

Hello Tom,

Many thanks.. this of course, is on Casebook about his book..

A brilliantly written specialist book targeted towards the seasoned and serious Ripperologist. Robert McLaughlin pulls a major coup by discovering an obscure book written by a French medical student named André Lamoureux in 1894 entitled De l'Éventration au point-de-vue medico-legal - inside was published a single photograph of Mary Jane Kelly. This book preceeds Lacassagne's Vacher l'Eventreur by five years and must now be considered the earliest publication ever to print a photo of a Ripper victim.

best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

connection

Hello Phil. There may have been an old connection, but, so far as I know, no recent connection. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

The best.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello Phil. There may have been an old connection, but, so far as I know, no recent connection. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

The best.
LC

Hello Lynn,

I am really wondering about a few things because of the International flavour of the threads at present. One the French one. Two, the Danish one, and Three, of course, the Irish one.

best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

Russian connection

Hello Phil. You compel me to be serious.

Very well, there was also a rather strong Russian one.

The best.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello Phil. You compel me to be serious.

Very well, there was also a rather strong Russian one.

The best.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Compel you? ...Lord...what have I done?..lol

And a Polish one....

best wishes

Phil

[Tom_Wescott]

I am really wondering about a few things because of the International flavour of the threads at present. One the French one. Two, the Danish one, and Three, of course, the Irish one.

And then there's the Tiger Woods thread, which pretty much covers all other races and nationalities.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Phil Carter]

And then there's the Tiger Woods thread, which pretty much covers all other races and nationalities.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hello Tom,

Youve been reading my postings haven't you!..lol

best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

straight face

Hello Phil.

"Compel you? ...Lord...what have I done?"

You're a serious thinker, I'm a wandering minded rogue. Your hard bitten approach chastises me.

The best.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello Phil.

"Compel you? ...Lord...what have I done?"

You're a serious thinker, I'm a wandering minded rogue. Your hard bitten approach chastises me.

The best.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Verily, I chastiseth ye not. It is an innocent invitation to the mind-wanderers amongst us...

And yea, I doth apologise for any chastisement felt.

Blimey, I am speaking a cross between Mr Spearshake-speak and Blackadder... what is becoming of this cockney-blooded Londoner?

best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

hybrid

Hello Phil. Nah, just pulling your leg.

A hybrid between "the Bard" and a Cockney?

"To be or not to be. 'ere now, you call that a bleedin' question? Blimey!"

The best.
LC

[RJM]

Hello all,

I wondered if anyone could tell me the exact known origins as to how the Mary Kelly photo, MJK1, was first published in a book in France, and if there are any known connections between the French author and anyone related to the Whitechapel murder case?

best wishes

Phil

Your simple question has a rather complicated answer. The simplified version is that we do not know how the photographs were procured, who obtained them, and from whom they were received.

There are seven names worth noting who may have obtained Whitechapel victim photographs for publication: Arthur MacDonald, Andre Lamoureux, Alexandre Lacassagne, Henry Coutagne, Adrien Storck, B. Delaye, and Alphone Bertillon.

André Lamoureux’s doctoral thesis, De l'Éventration au point de vue médico légal, was published in 1894. It contains one photograph, the full length shot of Mary Jane Kelly in situ. There is no reason to suggest Lamouruex obtained the photograph. Professor Lacassagne and Dr. Henry Coutagne are praised for their help and wisdom, and for providing source material, but there is no credit or source given for the photograph.

Lacassagne would publish the same photograph of Kelly, along with a picture of Catherine Eddowes, in Vacher l’Eventreur et les crimes sadiques in 1899. Lacassagne was a well respected teacher, writer, and criminologist by this time. The University of Lyon created a prestigious chair just for him: Professeur de Médecine à la Légale Faculté de Médecine. In 1921, three years before his death, Lacassagne donated all of his books and papers to the University of Lyon. The Lacassagne Collection still exists at the University of Lyon but does not contain any Whitechapel victim photographs. This is not surprising, owing to the fact that his chapter on the Whitechapel murders was written by American criminal anthropologist, Arthur MacDonald.

MacDonald was a disciple of the Lombrosian or Italian school of criminology. MacDonald attended university in Europe from 1885-1889. After he returned home, he worked as a clerk for the US Bureau of Education. In 1892, on behalf of the Bureau, MacDonald traveled to the International Congress of Psychology in London. He used some of his time to gather information about certain crimes that he would later use for articles and books.

MacDonald contacted the Home Office and requested to see all of the medical files for the Whitechapel murders. If this was not allowed he wished to send a letter to Doctor Bond asking about the medical facts about the case. The Home Office refused MacDonald on both points.

In 1893, Storck-Maisson of Lyon published Le criminel type dans quelques formes graves de la criminalité by Arthur MacDonald. The book was translated into French by Dr. Henry Coutagne, and never published outside of France in any language. The book did contain a segment on the Whitechapel murders but no photographs. This segment was reprinted, almost verbatim, in Lacassagne, with proper credit to MacDonald and Coutagne but no photographic acknowledgments.

All three books mentioned above were published by Adrien Storck in Lyon. The photograph of Mary Kelly was set for the page by photographer B. Delaye, also of Lyon. Delaye set almost all of the illustrations for Storck’s books and always signed his name in distinctive block lettering in the bottom right-hand corner of a picture. The signature is present on the Kelly photo.

These are your main players in Lyon.

Lamoureux almost certainly did not receive any photographs of the Whitechapel victims. He simply did not possess the connections at the time.

Lacassagne is doubtful but a possible recipient of photographs. His enormous reputation and being a regular attendee of various conferences means he could have procured them. The fact that they are not known to exist in the collection he left behind is problematic.

MacDonald was never allowed access to Home Office files, and there are no photographs in his book, which means he can almost certainly be ruled out as a procurer of Whitechapel victim photographs as well.

If Adrien Storck possessed the photograph of Mary Jane Kelly, why didn’t he add to MacDonald’s criminal title, which preceded Lamoureux’s by one year and Lacassagne’s by six?

B. Delaye was a photographer who may or may not have traded photographs with other photographers.

Coutagne translated MacDonald’s book. He spoke English, travelled and attended many conferences, and had an excellent reputation as a doctor. He could have easily obtained Whitechapel victim photographs.

Alphonse Bertillon collected photographs, was well connected, and he may have procured copies to pass on to his colleagues in Lyon.

There is even a longer list of people on the other side of the channel who had copies of photos of the Whitechapel victims. This post is already too long, so I don’t wish to cover that here. Once it becomes known who procured the victim photographs for publication in France, it becomes easier to trace who they came from.

I have found no private correspondence between any of these Frenchmen and those in the UK who possessed or had access to Whitechapel victim photographs.

From 1888-1894 there were over fifty major medical and criminological conferences in Europe. The 2nd International Congress of Criminal Anthropology was held in Paris in 1889, and larger still was the Exposition universelle de 1889, a World’s Fair also held in Paris. There was plenty of opportunity for planned or chance meetings and the exchange of photographs in the six years leading up to the publication of Mary Jane Kelly in situ.

Cheers,

Robert

[Archaic]

"More, Please."

Hey Phil, great choice for a thread topic.

Hello, Robert.

This post is already too long, so I don’t wish to cover that here.

> No, it's not, please keep going!!!!

Have pity on those of us who didn't have a chance to get your book before it sold out.

At this point it appears that we all have to wait until some fellow Ripperologist dies before a single copy will ever hit the marketplace....sigh. Any chance of issuing a reprinting, or even an E-book?

Honestly, this is such a fascinating subject.
I don't wish to impose on you, but I'm sure we'd all love to hear more if you can spare the time.

Thanks and best regards, Archaic

PS: Your episode of Rippercast is definitely one of my favorites.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Robert, Archaic,

First of all Robert, THANK YOU...that reply was superb, and certainly FULLY covered all the thoughts I had from the French angle. From what you have already written, without seeing them, the "sept magnifique" in France have obviously been thoroughly checked with a background visa vi the even greater quantity of recipients in England that you mentioned. It also shows that because of the conferances, with the possibility of the swapping of the said photo, that there may be in print MJK1 in yet another (as yet) unknown publication.

Also, because of what you have said, I bring in the obvious connection. MJK3.
I would find it highly unusual that MJK3 wasn't also swapped and passed around, and the mere fact that it's existance only came to light in 1987, suggests to me that it is a fake...for if the one famous photo was so readily bandied around in England alone, I can see no reason why amongst so many possibilities, that MKJ3 wouldn't be . Therefore this information you have given me now, leads me even more in the direction of the whole thing about MJK3 being a modern hoax. Let alone all the things "wrong" with it. My personal feeling is that it may well have been taken with an old camera, but that it has been touched up and is a fake.

Like Archaic, I find this subject totally fascinating, and would dearly love to know more, for we mere mortals unable to get hold of your reknowned book. I echo her sentiments fully.

Again Robert, thank you so much for this answer. Because of the very nature of the answer, you having tried in vain to see any connection between known possible recievers of the photo, It has me pondering various possibilities....both political and via the various police depts etc between London and Paris. Political correspondance between two individuals should not be too difficult to trace. It may be harder tracing police correspondance, especially as we are dealing with the possibility of the Secret Dept being involved.

I look forward to any additional posting.

best wishes

Phil