John Gill

[Cap'n Jack]

No worries, Silver, I've been sort of looking at this case for about five years now, but never really turned my mind to it, but I will now.

[silverstealth]

Thanks Jack, any material you come across would be most appreciated by the way..

And if your interested in the old Victorian Asylums.

https://www.stanleyroydhospital.co.uk

and www.highroydshospital.co.uk are 2 in depth studies I have carried out.

[Cap'n Jack]

Great post, Silver, and I wish you all the luck in the world.
Well done, mate.

[silverstealth]

Back Mellor st, where Johns body was discovered.



Walmer Villas where John was last seen at 830 am 27th December 1888



John Gills gravestone.

I have been researching "The Bradford Murder" as it was called for over 12 months now, going into the minutest detail. My research material is comprehensive and nearing completion. Its a harrowing story with many twists and turns.

https://www.bradfordinfocus.co.uk

is a website devoted to uncovering Victorian Bradfords rich industrial past as well as documenting the city now.

There are locations on there that relate to the gill murder however they are not specifically identified as being so.. John lived just off Manningham lane close to the Bradford City Football ground one of the busiest routes into Bradford at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hyh58ngpIs&feature=PlayList&p=F3E52E5E9162CCE1&index=49

This footage was taken early in the 20th century and is indicative of just how busy Manningham lane was

There are plans for a publication so I am not going to spoil the plot for you..

[Archaic]

Sexual Mutilation / Headstone Inscription

I have always wondered if Jack the Ripper "experimented" by killing different types of victims- including, unfortunately, young children.

I looked back over my notes on this case, and the police viewed the murder of John Gill as possibly linked to the Whitechapel Murders because the boy was not only eviscerated, but also sexually mutilated.

Details seem to have been so awful they were hushed up, but the child's entire scrotum was excised. (I don't know if it was left with the corpse or not. Some of the excised pieces, such as the child's right ear, were discovered shoved into his chest cavity.)

Because of the bizarre nature of this crime, the London Police sent their surgeon Dr. George Bagster Phillips up to Bradford to inspect the corpse. He concluded that the crimes were probably linked.

Johnnie Gill's parents were devastated by the horrible death of their eldest son & moved away from their Bradford home, but Johnnie's poor mother continued to regularly visit his grave until her own death nearly 50 years later. (Mrs Gill passed away in 1932- such a long time to suffer!)

Here is the inscription the Gill family put upon Johnnie's headstone:

JOHN GILL, WHO WAS FOUND DEAD DECEMBER 29TH, 1888,
HAVING MET HIS DEATH AT THE HAND OF SOMEONE WHO WILL SOMEDAY SEEK REPENTANCE.
IN HIS 8th YEAR.

We can only hope that the sick bastard who did this to Johnnie Gill "someday sought repentance", but I sincerely doubt it. Best regards, Archaic

[Mr Chumley]

Found this thought it worth a mention

A retired police officer has uncovered documents which connect the Ripper to the killing of Percy Knight Searle, nine, who was found stabbed to death in Havant, Hampshire in 1888 - the year of the Whitechapel killings - while on an errand for his mother.

Gavin Maidment, senior assistant at Havant Museum, has discovered archives which mention that a magistrate received a letter bearing a Portsmouth postmark, days before Percy's killing, signed "Yours, Jack the Ripper."

The letter told police not to bother looking for him in London because "I'm not there", suggesting he had moved his activities to the south coast.

During the Ripper's reign of terror, the police received many letters claiming to be from him. Most were disregarded as having been sent by cranks. The Portsmouth letter was taken seriously at the time.

Robert Husband, 11, the only witness to the killing, said in a statement that he saw a man stab Percy. Husband himself was eventually charged with the murder after a pocket knife found at the scene, believed to be the murder weapon, was found to belong to his brother. He was acquitted at Winchester assizes and the case remained unsolved.

Mr Maidment, a policeman for 30 years, is now trying to trace descendants of the two boys and of members of the jury. He intends to write a book about the case.

"It was the newspaper reports of the time which got me hooked," he said. "The case throws up fascinating facts about society at the time. I'm amazed that this case has not received more publicity over the years and so little is known about it. The Ripper link may be a red herring, but it is possible that he did kill outside London as the letter suggests. It will be interesting to talk to any descendants of those involved in the case to find out what they have been told."

Mr Maidment admits that it is difficult to discover whether the Ripper had any links with the area because his identity has never been proven.

One theory is that the Ripper was the brother of Michael Maybrick, the mayor of Ryde on the Isle of Wight between 1900 and 1911.

[kensei]

The only Ripper book I've seen this in is Cornwell's.

Same here, and despite the treatment she usually gets I remember being quite intrigued when I read that part. Cornwell makes a lot of sweeping conclusions and links facts together that may not really be related, but the facts themselves that she relates are mostly accurate. She references a Ripper letter dated November 14, 1888 that said:

"I am going to commit 3 more 2 girls and a boy about 7 years old this time I like ripping very much especially women because they don't make a lot of noise."

Twelve days later came the murder of eight year old Percy Searle. On the same day as that murder, another Ripper letter stated:

"I shall do another murder on some young youth such a printing lads who work in the City. I did write you once before but I don't think you had it. I shall do them worse than the women I shall take their hearts and rip them up the same way... I will attack on them when are going home... any Youth I see I will kill but you will never kitch me put that in your pipe and smoke it."

One month later, John Gill is murdered with his heart torn out in Bradford. Cornwell writes, "Afterward, in an undated, partial letter, the Ripper wrote to the Metropolitan Police, 'I riped up little boy in Bradford.' A Ripper letter of January 16, 1889, refers to 'my trip to Bradford.'"

I know there was a plethora of "Ripper letters" that were actually written by a plethora of people, and I'm not saying I believe this with conviction. But I think it is intriguing food for thought. We could have a child killer who wrote letters pretending to be the Ripper (likely). Or, there is the question many have asked about what the real Ripper could have done in his escalation to be even worse than the mutilation of Mary Kelly (whose heart he took away). The killing of children perhaps? Anyway, Cornwell thinks Walter Sickert did all of it and on that I do not agree.

[Archaic]

Hi, Cap'n; thanks for responding. Even if the kids were too young to formally testify in court, wouldn't they still have told John's mother & the police all they knew?

It would have been something to go on.

And wouldn't the newspapers have mentioned it?

Thanks, Archaic

[Cap'n Jack]

I might be wrong, Arch, but if my memory serves me well children under the age of 13 could not give evidence in a court of law in the late 1880's. John was only seven so his fellow skaters were probably a similar age.

[Archaic]

Thanks. So the kids are just goofing in the December snow; that makes sense.

But didn't the police interview the children John Gill was playing with? They would have been the last to see him alive.

Thanks, Archaic

[Cap'n Jack]

The result:

[Sam Flynn]

Dim [no] problem, Robert... as we say

[Robert]

Thanks for the translation, Gareth.

[Cap'n Jack]

The suspect was freed by a later appeal court.
The other boy was supposedly murdered and mutilated at Kilwich.
This snippet clarifies the 'skating':

'The body was found in an outhouse and was that of a boy named John Gill, aged eight years. The boy when last seen alive was sliding on the ice with a number of companions. '

[Brenda]

So what finally happened in the end? Was Mr. Barrett proven guilty?