The Ripper's Knife?

[Ryan_Miller]

I read once that a man claims to own the knife of Jack the Ripper. Supposedly he found it in a wooden box with a blue velvet inside, and I believe I read there was a spot reserved for another knife beside it, but that knife was lost. Either way, I highly doubt it truly was ole Jacky Boys knife, but have any of you heard this story or know anymore about it? I've searched the internet, thinking that was where I read the claim, and I came across Tony Williams, who in 2005 claimed to have recieved the tools of Jacks trade from his descendant Sir John Williams. Once again, there is a person claiming to have the murder weapon. Although, it is probably as far fetched as all the others that have made these claims, here is the link

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/apr/24/ukcrime.tonythompson1

Thanks,
Ryan

[Fisherman]

You would not be thinking of Don Rumbelow´s knife, would you? That one is written about in his book from the seventies - and a very good book it is! - where he mentions how he came across a knife that may have been Jacks!
I can´t fully remember all the details, but it seems the knife had been handed down to a little old lady who used it to tend to her garden! And if my memory serves me, that knife was also a surgeons knife, and came in a wooden box lined with bloodstained cloth, something that the old lady thought so horrible that she burnt the box...!

All the best,
Fisherman

[kensei]

On Rumbelow's knife, from "Jack the Ripper A to Z:"

"A broken surgical knife, now in the possession of Donald Rumbelow... The knife was given to Miss Dorothy Stroud in 1937 by Hugh Pollard, sporting editor of 'Country Life,' who said it had belonged to Jack the Ripper. Since Pollard was the partner of gunsmith Robert Churchill, for many years Scotlan Yard's ballistics expert, the provenance of the knife seemed excellent. It was then one of an unbroken pair, contained in a box lined with bloodstained velvet. Miss Stroud burned the box, gave one knife away, and used the other for carving and subsequently gardening, in the course of which she broke it."

Two questions I wonder if anyone can answer about this knife-

One, I have seen a photo of it broken in two, but I saw it in person last month at the JTR Exhibition at the Museum in Docklands where it appeared to be in one piece again. Has it been repaired, or is that only a facsimile of the real knife they have on display?

And two, the A to Z also puts forth the theory that if the knife was indeed once in police posession and somehow came to be considered to be the Ripper's it was probably seized from Michael Ostrog, who was once arrested for stealing surgical equipment. That sounds likely. Anyone agree?

[Mike Covell]

There are quite a lot of contempory news reports regarding people arrested carrying knives, and knives being found in the neighbourhood of the murders.

It could be any one of those.

[kensei]

There are quite a lot of contempory news reports regarding people arrested carrying knives, and knives being found in the neighbourhood of the murders.

It could be any one of those.

True, but how many of those knives were surgical implements (Rumbelow's is an amputation knife), and how many of those people have ended up on the list of noteworthy Ripper suspects, let alone the Macnaghten Memoranda? I don't know, if Scotland Yard found the knife important enough to save until the 1930s and it was known by them as the Ripper's knife, Ostrog just sounds like a likely connection. Not that I think Ostrog was the Ripper. He was just a thief.

[sdreid]

I expect Jack had more than one knife. How many knives do you have? I must have at least 25.

[Jeff Leahy]

True, but how many of those knives were surgical implements (Rumbelow's is an amputation knife), and how many of those people have ended up on the list of noteworthy Ripper suspects, let alone the Macnaghten Memoranda? I don't know, if Scotland Yard found the knife important enough to save until the 1930s and it was known by them as the Ripper's knife, Ostrog just sounds like a likely connection. Not that I think Ostrog was the Ripper. He was just a thief.

Yes there are a few theories circulating about the knife. Funny enough I was with Don at the Dock Exhibision when he discovered it wasnt with the knife section?

However the two stories I've come across is A. It was a murder weapon possibly connected to fenian terrorism. Oakley park murder? (i'm using memory )

And somewhere else i have heard that the knife was connected to Druit. Searching of chambers (however I do not know the source of this story). I'm sure someone will tell us.

Pirate

[Harry the Hawker]

knife

However the two stories I've come across is A. It was a murder weapon possibly connected to fenian terrorism. Oakley park murder? (i'm using memory )
Pirate

I remember hearing it was by the same maker as the knives used in the Phoenix Park murders in Dublin (possible tenuous link to Tumbelty/Fenians); I think I heard this in relation to Dr T anyway.

[Khanada]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/apr/24/ukcrime.tonythompson1

from the above...

Incisions on the victims' bodies match the dimensions of the surgical knife.

This part just kinda makes me wonder, given that (at this late date) we don't really have anything but rather vague information about the incisions -- enough, perhaps, to guess at a size range for the knife (or knives) JtR used, but not enough to definitively say "this kind and this kind only".

Wouldn't one pretty much have to have at least one of the bodies to determine this kind of thing about the weapon that wounded it?

[Chava]

Thing is, if that's the Ripper's knife, then the cops knew who he was. And they didn't! Any amputation knife used at that time stood a damn' good chance of getting bloody, so the blood is no proof. We don't even know if it's human blood...

[DarkPassenger]

I still think the Ripper was a fishmonger. It's the way he did it. Plus he'd have access to different types of knife, and since two knives were supposed to have been used...

[smezenen]

An amputation knife would have done jack well if he was also responsible for the torso murders.

[DarkPassenger]

Nah, he didn't do the torso murders. It doesn't fit, despite the old cliche of "if someone was morally capable of ripping women, he'd be capable of dismembering them." It does not work like that. Dennis Nilsen did not suddenly go onto picking up male prostitutes, shooting them and dumping them in back-alleys, because it was not his method. Same with Sutcliffe. He did not begin cutting women up and dumping them in bin bags in the sea like Dexter!

[Mr.Hyde]

Mr.Hyde

An amputation knife would have done jack well if he was also responsible for the torso murders.

Like these.

http://dadbiomedical.co.uk/images/048.jpg

http://www.braceface.com/medical/instrument_images/mvc-095s.jpg

http://www.phisick.com/images/surg/liston-knife-set-101.jpg

[Mr.Hyde]

http://www.medword.com/surgical/sok.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Liston

Some more surgical knifes from the era.There was a fine set of small folding knives made in USA at that time,used for amputation-only have picture of the case.
Robert Liston's skills give a good insight into what a top 19th.century surgeon was capable of.
4 CVs were murdered in the dark of night.City gaslights went out at 11pm.