No Jewish victims

[The Good Michael]

He he- Oh Go On------------ I've got a 2nd hand one (Lance!)- which I'm prepared to part with for 50 guineas! ONO!

2nd hand? Zwounds! A two-hander? Lucky girl.

Mike

[Suzi]

He he where were we?

[Chava]

Sam Flynn, just FYI, the term 'Jewess' is considered pejorative. If you wish to refer to a Jewish woman, it would be correct to refer to her as a 'Jewish woman'.

There were a lot of Jewish prostitutes in the East End. Sadly these women were lured into prostitution by Jewish men who hung around the docks looking for and befriending lone immigrant women. They were then taken to brothels and worked there. In general I don't think they worked the streets. There was a thriving trade in this kind of Jewish white slavery in London, New York and various ports in South America. Isobel Vincent wrote a book about it called 'Bodies and Souls'.

[Limehouse]

Sam Flynn, just FYI, the term 'Jewess' is considered pejorative. If you wish to refer to a Jewish woman, it would be correct to refer to her as a 'Jewish woman'.

There were a lot of Jewish prostitutes in the East End. Sadly these women were lured into prostitution by Jewish men who hung around the docks looking for and befriending lone immigrant women. They were then taken to brothels and worked there. In general I don't think they worked the streets. There was a thriving trade in this kind of Jewish white slavery in London, New York and various ports in South America. Isobel Vincent wrote a book about it called 'Bodies and Souls'.

Sadly Chava, this trade continues today, although it is a minority of east Europeans who are controlling the trade. We have had several cases here in Peterborough of women being lured to the UK with the promise of a good job and a decent home. When they arrive, they are met by a man who then forces them into prostitution, passing her from 'owner to owner'. Her passport is taken away, she is given no money and she is locked up in between 'jobs' and forced to do household chores. In a case heard recently in our courts, a 16 year old girl was rescued and her absusers charged.

[Robert]

"Sam Flynn, just FYI, the term 'Jewess' is considered pejorative."

By whom?

[Jeff Leahy]

Sam Flynn, just FYI, the term 'Jewess' is considered pejorative. If you wish to refer to a Jewish woman, it would be correct to refer to her as a 'Jewish woman'.

I'd not heard this before Chava, so thank you.

There were a lot of Jewish prostitutes in the East End. Sadly these women were lured into prostitution by Jewish men who hung around the docks looking for and befriending lone immigrant women. They were then taken to brothels and worked there. In general I don't think they worked the streets. There was a thriving trade in this kind of Jewish white slavery in London, New York and various ports in South America. Isobel Vincent wrote a book about it called 'Bodies and Souls'.

I guess prostitution will arise where ever there is extreme poverty. Thanks for the book tip

Pirate

[Sam Flynn]

Sam Flynn, just FYI, the term 'Jewess' is considered pejorative.

That's news to me, Chava. In most European languages, including my own mother-tongue (or should that just be "tongue"?), it's often quite correct to reflect the gender of a person in a noun. Hence, "Jewish man/Jewish woman" in French is "Juif/Juive"; in German, "Jude/Jüdin"; in Italian, "Ebreo/Ebrea"; in Welsh, "Iddew/Iddewes". Likewise, "Français/Française"; "Französe/Französin"; "Franceso/Francesa"; "Ffrancwr/Ffrances" ("Frenchman/Frenchwoman" in each respective language). It's only now occurring to me that English seems to be partly an exception - notwithstanding the fact that "Jewess" certainly exists as an English noun, and has done for a long time.

[Limehouse]

I have often heard and seen the term 'Jewess' but more often myself use the term Jewish to refer to all members of the faith. It's interesting really because we don't femanise Christian or Muslim do we?

[Chava]

I'm not fond of that usage in any language, and I know that most Jews will agree with me. We are Jews, and our gender is not part of our Jewishness. I guess that 'Jewess' has the same kind of unpleasant note to our ears that 'Negress' would have to a person of African descent. 'Jewess' is old-fashioned, and has often been found in unpleasant circumstances in 19th-century literature. We don't like it.

[Sam Flynn]

It's too bad if the use of an ancient, and rather widespread, grammatical device as the gendered noun has been tainted by misuse in the past. You may be assured that I meant no unpleasantness whatever when I used the term.

[KatBradshaw]

This is an interesting article on the usage of the word.

http://www.nextbook.org/cultural/feature.html?id=772

[Chava]

Sam, I know that. But as the above article suggests, a lot of Jewish people really hate to hear that word, and I'm one of them! As the article pointed out, one doesn't call a female Catholic a 'Catholicess'. Age is not a defense, in my opinion, for an egregiously racist usage.

[Robert]

"in Welsh, "Iddew/Iddewes". "

So, a Welsh link to the Goulston St message?

[Sam Flynn]

"in Welsh, "Iddew/Iddewes". "

So, a Welsh link to the Goulston St message?

...not to mention a cryptic reference to the victim slain on the morning of its discovery! (I refer, of course, to Eliddewes Stride.)

[Sam Flynn]

Age is not a defense, in my opinion, for an egregiously racist usage.

In Welsh, French, Italian (and possibly Latin?) there is no hint of racism as far as I can discern. Indeed, even those nationals who speak such languages as have gendered nouns refer to themselves in the same terms - a Welshman is a "Cymro", for example, whilst a Welsh woman is a "Cymraes". You have raised a valid point, however, in drawing a distinction between a noun referring to nationality as against one referring to religion - thanks for doing so, and thanks also to Kat for posting the link.