Two things that don't make sense!

[The Good Michael]

Brad,

but we don't know that they were behind in the rent. We only have Mcarthy's statement that that was the reason Bowyer was sent 'round. My belief is that she was behind on Mcarthy's share of her evening's take. After all, she had Blotchy and then went out again according to one witness. These old-style slumlords were getting money anyway they could. They seem to have been common hustlers who owned property, or properties in Mcarthy's case. It may be significant that Mcarthy had connections to other properties that are affiliated with other victims, such as Crossingham's and Chapman.

Though this isn't the thread for it, Barnett may have been Kelly's pimp, and she liked the arrangements with Mcarthy better and threw HIM out rather than his leaving. Speculation obviously, but there is much darkness surrounding Miller's Court and it isn't just because of a broken gaslight.

Cheers,

Mike

[celee]

Those are 2 good questions, although the answer to one can be surmised fairly easily. Only George Hutchinson said he stood in the rain watching the court,.. Sarah Lewis saw a man wearing a wideawake hat watching the court. Only GH said he walked from Romford that day. ONLY GH saw a man with Astrakan cuffs that night with Mary Kelly, and only GH and Carrie Maxwell said they saw Mary Kelly out of her room and alive after 11:45pm November 8th. GH's suspect is removed from being suspect of record by Nov 15th, and as of the 16th, the police sought a man with a Blotchy complexion seen with Mary before midnight on the 8th.

Best regards.

Hi,

I am not suggesting you are wrong, However, I wonder why. Maybe the more time that they spent talking with George the more of a flake he seemed to be. I suspect since Abberline believed his story at first Hutchinson must have acted in some way to discredit him.

I can't understand why Blotchy face became the main suspect. If this is true, the Detectives are dismissing the cry of oh murder that two witnesses heard. If I was working the case, I would find it interesting that two people heard a cry of oh murder the night that Kelly was killed. I would not care how common a cry it was. I guess they felt that Cox was a real crediable witness, I do too, but they still must have considered the possibility that the time of Death was after 3:30.

To answer the questions. If it is true that George gave Kelly money from time to time then I would be willing to bet that he was a client of hers. He may have developed feelings for her. It is not uncommon for men to develop feelings for women in the sex trade. He may have just been spying on her. He may have been waiting for her client to leave so he could aproach her for a date. He may have been concerned for her saftey just like he claimed or he could have been fibbing about the whole thing, and yes, Ben, he could have been Jack the Ripper.

I have no answer concerning why she was allowed to fall so far behind on the rent. There are many possibilities. I guess the idea that springs to mind is he liked her. However it was not just Kelly he was letting fall behind on the rent, it was Joe as well. They may have just been likable people and the landlord may have just been trying to work with them.

Your friend, Brad

[Ben]

Sounds painful, Mike!

I'm glad in retrospect that I dodged that bullet, although I was looking forward to playing third thug from the left in Monster Kung Fu Dragon: The Legend IV.

All the best,
Ben

[The Good Michael]

Ben,

You know I'm only sucking up because I want a Ripper friend in Korea

By the way, remember that guy you contacted re: acting opportunities? I saw him on a terrible Korean drama. He played a disconsolate drunkard who was grieving over the loss of his children. There was a scene in which he was reunited with them and he cried. It was so cheesy. He went from being drunk in one camera to a soaking wet, tear-streaming face in another camera a few seconds later. the Koreans don't know how bad the acting was, but it made me sick. They have split screens in these docudramas which show the Korean celebrity audiences looking sad and going oooh and aahh all the time as they view the videotapes of this crap.

Cheers,

Mike

[Ben]

You have indeed, Mike, and my appreciative thanks for the kind words.

All the best,
Ben

[The Good Michael]

Ben's well-argued thoughts have to do with the possibility that Hutchinson thought he was going to be blamed for Kelly's murder, so he came forward with a statement, just in the nick of time, so that he could take the heat off himself.
Ben argues this very well and with complete logic. Though I argue against it, I admire his logical approach to this component of the case.

Cheers,

Mike

PS. I hope I represented your side okay, if in brief, Ben.

[Roy Corduroy]

Saving one's bacon: Protect oneself, Save one's own skin

Thanks, Michael, but protecting oneself from what? Saving own skin why? How is that necessary?

Roy

[Steve F]

By some accounts. By others she was stout. My guess is that we wouldn't bat an eye at her today.

Cheers,

Mike

Mike,
Yeah they didn't have page 3 etc then
However,in 1888 she could've been London answer to Kelly Brook!
Steve

[The Good Michael]

Roy,

Saving one's bacon: Protect oneself, Save one's own skin

That kind of thing.

Mike

[Roy Corduroy]

a bacon-saver

Ben, what do you mean?

Roy

[The Good Michael]

By all accounts MJK was above average in looks,figure

By some accounts. By others she was stout. My guess is that we wouldn't bat an eye at her today.

Cheers,

Mike

[Steve F]

Take your pick!

Thread title: "Two things that don't make sense"...

Only TWO???

All the best

Hi Glenn
Yes, there are oodles of things in this case that don't make sense but these were the 2 at time time that were annoying me
By all accounts MJK was above average in looks,figure etc when compared to your 'street lady' in the LVP so I feel there could have been any number of 'boyfriends' who could've 'done her in' and let Jack take the blame.
Of we go....
Steve

[Ben]

Hi Mitch,

Or Hutchinson reads the paper and decides now is the best time to insert himself into the biggest ruckus to hit London and pretends that he is the guy.

Possibly, but I can't picture him incriminating himself to such an extent if he wasn't the man in question. The important thing to consider here - and in any aspect of the ripper case - is historical precedent; comparisons with other serial and murder cases. Unfortunately, there have been examples of killers coming forward under false pretenses when they fear incriminating evidence and/or imminent identification. It's happened before, whereas I've yet to see a single example of a publicity seeker (or whatever) assuming the identity of a real person observed at the crime scene, especially if that person is claiming to be a witness himself.

That's not to say it couldn't have happened, or that a "quick buck" didn't figure on his agenda. I just feel that the timing and congruity with Sarah Lewis' account, as described earlier, points away from a mere publicity-seeker and more in the direction of a bacon-saver.

Hi Claire - Thanks for the clarification. I'm sorry if I gave you the impression I was upset. I really wasn't.

Best regards,
Ben

[DVV]

Hi Ben and Steve F,

OK great, if Hutchinson was so suspicious, why wasn't he arrested and tried for murder? Like Tom Sadler.

Roy

Hi Roy,
there is a significant difference here.
If Hutch had been suspected, like, Sadler, Barnett, etc, and carefully questionned and cross-examined, your objection would be significant enough.
But that was not the case, though, at least, he deserved to be suspected of being a liar, a dishonest witness.
The fact is that he hasn't been suspected at all, and that's why he wasn't arrested and tried.
Maybe the reason why the case remained unsolved.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

Possibly. The police had previously hired two bloodhounds. But they had been sent home by the time of Kelly's murder. This is a point of fact and not speculation.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Tom,
the sentence (from Salome's post) is:

"could it be possible that he [Mac Carthy] may have wanted to buy time for the trail to go cold in case bloodhounds were to be used?"
Isn't that a speculation about Mac Carthy's guilt?
Of course, Salome is free to speculate, and I am free to express my own feelings about such a speculation.

Amitiés,
David