The International Working Mens Club and the GSG.

[DVV]

Looking at the map, I guess I have to state that a 20 seconds walk is enough to pass by 20 millions Jews.

Amitiés,
David

[Sam Flynn]

"Regardless of whether I think", Dan?

If Ben had said, all along, that the Imperial Club was "within easy walking distance" of where Eddowes was killed, I'd have no qualms at all. To say, baldly and without qualification, that it was "in close proximity", however, is imbuing the situation with a greater significance than the geography warrants.

[Ben]

Hi Gareth,

It's the Princess Alice, I believe - on the corner, opposite the Victoria Home. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The Princess Alice does reside opposite the Victoria Home (now an ugly one-story building with a flower stall outside), but it's the red building to the East, not the grey building to the North. Dunno what the grey building was and is, but a pub it isn't.

If I want to cover 50-90 yards (or whatever the hell it is), I would not wish to do so in 20 seconds, unless I fancied a trot.

You wouldn't need to trot 'cause it's appreciably less than 50-90 yards - more like 25. Honestly, I'd be delighted to conduct a small Tour-de-Spit for anyone intereseted in ascertaining the correct distances involved. When I use expressions like "close proximity", I do so not because I've been inhabited by the spectre of a bearded, bespectacled journalist with an outlandish theory, but because I've been to the sites themselves, and that surely must count for something?

All the best,
Ben

[DVV]

It doesn't suggest me a Jew, my dear...
It suggets me that there is place enough for doubts, questions, thoughts, various scenarii.

Amitiés,
David

[Sam Flynn]

Thank you, Fisherman. Sensible words indeed. Either that, or you're as mad as I am.

[Dan Norder]

Whatever it was, David, it wasn't in "close proximity", I'm afraid.

Well, sure, if we all have to follow your particular interpretation of "close proximity" anyway. I think it's fair to say that someone picking up a prostitute across the street from a Jewish club and then taking her through the nearest alleyway to kill her in some dark spot is still within close proximity to the club regardless of whether you think there's any special significance to it or not.

[Fisherman]

I actually think that Sams answer went a long way to clarify his stance on the matter, David; whenever a group of people, regardless of what factor - nationality or something else - is represented in abundance in an area, things that happen in that area are logically bound to take place in what you may call close proximity to those representing that very group.
Putting it another way, all of the murders were committed not all that far from police stations, and in Mitre Square, there was a policeman living and an ex-copper working night-shift, meaning that they were both likely to be around when Eddowes was cut.
...but no, that does not lead me to suggest a policeman, ALTHOUGH there were such rumours around at the time.

Incidentally, Sam, I think Ben is right on where the princess Alice is and was situated (though formerly a storey and a half higher): to the east of the Victoria home, and not to the north.

The best, David, Sam, Ben!
Fisherman

[Sam Flynn]

That is a sophism, Sam.
The East-End is in London, and there were many Brits as well, and Irish, etc.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTT THEEEEEEEEEE MAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!

I've had it with this lunatic thread.

[Sam Flynn]

I've no idea what the building to the North of the VH is.

It's the Princess Alice, I believe - on the corner, opposite the Victoria Home. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Odd that Leather Apron preferred a "red" pub

It's not a red pub - it's colourless in that map. The building opposite - the VH - is red, but the northern part of Wentworth Street, and the eastern part of Commercial Street north of the pub, are both dark blue.

20 seconds! Try it! (I'd go with "close proximity")

If I want to cover 50-90 yards (or whatever the hell it is), I would not wish to do so in 20 seconds, unless I fancied a trot.

The Imperial Club cannot be said to have been within close proximity to anything other than the buildings either side of it, and neither of those were in "close proximity" to where Eddowes was killed. If you continue to insist to the contrary, then I can only assume that you've been possessed by the ghost of Stephen Knight.

[DVV]

How come, David? Were there "too many coincidences" about the number of Mexicans killed, or the number of Mexican buildings destroyed, in the Mexican earthquake? Or, rather, had it something to do with the fact that a lot of Mexicans lived there?

That is a sophism, Sam.
The East-End is in London, and there were many Brits as well, and Irish, etc.
You can say that the coincidences I have pointed out were nothing very extraordinary, due to the fact that they were many Jews dwelling there, but a Mexican earthquake has nothing to do in a sensible reply.

Amitiés,
David

[anna]

Hi Seecomber

Welcome to Casebook.....your post seems to have been lost amongst the heated debate which went on around it.

Good point on your first post.....

That the Ripper may have mistaken Liz for Elizabeth Long....especially as we have Kate using the name of Mary Ann Kelly....although the real Mary did use Mary Jane locally...which raises other points...

You see how things can progress here...

Your post probably would have been better over on the other Liz thread,as it's not in the middle of a debate...or you could open a new thread on the subject.

Look forward to catching up with you again.
Best Regards,

ANNA.

[DVV]

Sam,
I hardly recognize you here.
Once more, I have never said "close proximity", but "short distance" - and indeed, 50 or 70 yards is a very short distance, that can be walked in less than 1 minute (if you walk slowly).
And who has exagerated? I think it was you, Sam, when you put the distance as about 100 yards.

Amitiés,
David

[Sam Flynn]

there are simply too many coincidences about Jews that night

How come, David? Were there "too many coincidences" about the number of Mexicans killed, or the number of Mexican buildings destroyed, in the Mexican earthquake? Or, rather, had it something to do with the fact that a lot of Mexicans lived there?

[Ben]

Hi Gareth,

The Princess Alice is the red building opposite the Victoria Home and to the East of it, where it resides today with the same name (unless it changed locations at some point - anyone?). I've no idea what the building to the North of the VH is. Odd that Leather Apron preferred a "red" pub when there were so many other drinking holes around, unless of course that nickname applied to several individials (as I've often suspected).

"Within walking distance of a minute or so"

20 seconds! Try it! (I'd go with "close proximity")

Best regards,
Ben

[Sam Flynn]

Mais comme on dit à Marseille: "exagérer n'est pas mentir"!

It is, if you're trying to stretch a point. "Close proximity" sounds far more significant than "Within walking distance of a minute or so", but the latter is the more accurate representation of the truth.