The Double Event and the 'break': what was he doing?

[Sam Flynn]

As Sharks hunt their prey, Jack did his.

Good point, Monty - although Jack might have chosen the part of the "ocean" in which to hunt at any given time. The fact that Jack was "fishing" on the City side of Whitechapel might have had something to do with "H" Division police being possibly more active/alert in the "heart" of Whitechapel itself, owing to the Stride murder. Whether he killed Stride or not, she might have proven a useful decoy for him.

[Fisherman]

Sam writes:

"The fact that Jack was "fishing" on the City side of Whitechapel might have had something to do with "H" Division police being possibly more active/alert in the "heart" of Whitechapel itself, owing to the Stride murder. Whether he killed Stride or not, she might have proven a useful decoy for him."

Reasonable suggestion on the surface of things. But the suggested cautiousness on his behalf did not stop him from travelling straight back into H-division territory, though - and with his pockets stuffed with damning evidence to top things off.
My money remains on him having nothing to do whatsoever with the Stride murder, since it would have been utterly risky and foolish of him to make that journey - and if the Eddowes slaying was proof of him being wary of the danger at hand, it all ends up in one big contradiction. Showing a determination to get out of the danger zone, only to change his mind and head straight back again? Nah...

The best,
Fisherman

[Stephen Thomas]

The easiest explanation to believe is that the Ripper got out of Mitre Square as quickly as possible, dumped the apron shortly thereafter, and Long simply missed it the first time round.

Sam,

Have you got a degree in Stating The Bloody Obvious?

[Jon Guy]

The fact that Jack was "fishing" on the City side of Whitechapel might have had something to do with "H" Division police being possibly more active/alert in the "heart" of Whitechapel itself, owing to the Stride murder. Whether he killed Stride or not, she might have proven a useful decoy for him.

Hi Sam

The problem with the "decoy" theory is that at the Ripper must have been near Aldgate at 01.30 am to pick up Eddowes, which was only half an hour after the discovery of Stride, and Long stated that at 02.50 am the second murder was only a rumour :

[Coroner] Before going did you hear that a murder had been committed? - Yes. It is common knowledge that two murders have been perpetrated.
[Coroner] Which did you hear of? - I heard of the murder in the City. There were rumours of another, but not certain.

[perrymason]

Ive been thinking that since this "break" is actually nothing of the sort really...he was probably doing just what he did between the other kills.

He only killed on the last or second last day of the month, or on the 8th or 9th of the next, but the same 10 day period.

Then he disappears to re-appear at months end again. Since he killed 2 women at Septembers end, that may account for his 2 victims within those same 10 days, and then he just goes wherever he usually goes for those days mid-month.

So the "break", if anything, is only a "break" from killing a woman in the last 2 days of October.... before his Nov 9th next kill. He misses one victim in his pattern, and breaks it in the middle of the "series", with 2 in one night.

This sequence causes me problems personally, because Mary and Liz would fit into it...and Im unconvinced so far that "Jack" killed either of them.

Best regards all.

[Sam Flynn]

"The fact that Jack was "fishing" on the City side of Whitechapel might have had something to do with "H" Division police being possibly more active/alert in the "heart" of Whitechapel itself, owing to the Stride murder. Whether he killed Stride or not, she might have proven a useful decoy for him."

Reasonable suggestion on the surface of things. But the suggested cautiousness on his behalf did not stop him from travelling straight back into H-division territory

Finding a victim on the street, and dispatching her in his preferred manner, would have taken time, Fish - of which there would arguably be more available on the City side, where the Whitechapel grapevine was less likely to buzz and drag spectators (or "H" Division cops) into the streets. In fact, any buzzing grapevine was likely to have attracted attention towards St George's East, rather than the Western side of the district. This, in itself, might suggest why PC Long didn't get to hear about the murders until a little later than might otherwise have been the case.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam

The problem with the "decoy" theory is that at the Ripper must have been near Aldgate at 01.30 am to pick up Eddowes, which was only half an hour after the discovery of Stride, and Long stated that at 02.50 am the second murder was only a rumour :

[Coroner] Before going did you hear that a murder had been committed? - Yes. It is common knowledge that two murders have been perpetrated.
[Coroner] Which did you hear of? - I heard of the murder in the City. There were rumours of another, but not certain.

Good observation, Jon - but see my point about Long in my last post. Also, let's imagine that Jack was skulking around Whitechapel High Street at, say 01:10, when the balloon went up about the Berner Street murder. It wouldn't take him long to work out a contingency plan, and scuttle West towards Aldgate. That might still give him 20 minutes or so to hover around that area and single out a likely target.

[Nemo]

When the Ripper left Eddowes he was in a most vulnerable position. As in the case of Annie's death, he was in possession of a sharp, bloody knife, bodily organs, and in Eddowe's case, a large piece of Apron that could be linked to the victim.

Did the Ripper kill then put some distance between himself and the crime scene and then stop in a hidden place or deserted street to clean himself up before he carries on his way? - still with organs and a knife on him? All the time vulnerable?

I think it more likely that the Ripper, after each murder, headed immediately to a safe haven of some type of building where he could eat, preserve or otherwise dispose of the organs, wash himself and the knife, change clothes etc. There would be little or no reason to give the authorities a clue to his direction of travel by casually discarding the apron.

Is it not quite plausible that the Ripper did not kill Stride. He killed Eddowes and headed at speed toward Whitechapel. He became aware of the hue and cry around Berner St. and doubled back toward the City in panic, unable to reach his haven, possibly having to creep away (explaining the time lapse).

He had to get rid of the evidence as anybody walking the street would have been searched etc.

I think there was a good chance of finding the knife and the organs in or around Goulston St. or somewhere else on his line of travel. Unless he ate the organs immediately like Chikatilo.

[Ben]

Hi Nemo,

There would be little or no reason to give the authorities a clue to his direction of travel by casually discarding the apron.

...Although even if he was heading in the direction of his bolt-hole in the wake of the Eddowes murder, the fact that it evinced a "clue" as to his intended direction cannot have posed any real danger considering the many thousands of men who lived East of Goulston Street. A disposal at that location also entailed the added benefit of fuelling suspcions and ill-feeling towards the Jewish community, whether intentional or not.

Best regards,
Ben

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Is it not quite plausible that the Ripper did not kill Stride. He killed Eddowes and headed at speed toward Whitechapel. He became aware of the hue and cry around Berner St. and doubled back toward the City in panic, unable to reach his haven, possibly having to creep away (explaining the time lapse).

Good theory, and very plausible and likely to me that that's what happened, or something along those lines.

[Sam Flynn]

I think we're straying into "what happened after the break" territory here, chaps... actually we're firmly in "what did he do after killing Eddowes" territory, which is a whole other topic.

[Howard Brown]

Excuse me for perambulatin' into this thread...but I cannot understand why Ripperologists use the line of demarcation between the City turf and the Met turf as if the Ripper did.

Nemo & Sammy....good points and nicely done.

[Jez]

Jack was, of course, always hell-bent on causing trouble to future Ripperologists.
Seriously, I also doubt whether he was aware he was straying out of Met territory.

[Fisherman]

Sam writes:

"Finding a victim on the street, and dispatching her in his preferred manner, would have taken time, Fish - of which there would arguably be more available on the City side"

There is no denying that, Sam! But to read a plan of cunning evasion and quick and nimble adjusting to the circumstances into his choice of the Mitre Square area on that evening is more than I will do. It was just another red light district, offering the same kind of hunting grounds as Buck´s Row and Dorset Street, at a distance from the heart of the Whitechapel district that in no way urges us to lift an eyebrow.
The arguments we use to describe the Ripper as an evil mastermind, totally fearless and able to vanish into thin air, are to a very large extent arguments that are products of our own imagination.
The point made on this thread that there is every reason to believe that he never gave the fact that he was swopping police forces as he entered the City territory a single thought is a sound one. Likewise, it would be sound to realize that the more probable solution to the question what he did in the time space between the Stride slaying and the Eddowes ditto, is that he never killed Stride, and that there is therefore no problem to solve. He hung around in one of the prostitution districts, waiting for business to die down into a suitable level, with few people around but the more desperate wretches. The small hours was his preferred striking time, as evinced in the other deeds.
The Stride affair is out of style and out of timing and out of geographic mapping, whereas the Eddowes strike is IN style, IN timing and IN the kind of area where we would expect to meet our man. And the route he took from that strike indicates very clearly to me that he had no idea whatsoever that he might have run straight into the arms of H-division men, fanning out over the Whitechapel streets.

The best,
Fisherman

[Monty]

Good point, Monty - although Jack might have chosen the part of the "ocean" in which to hunt at any given time. The fact that Jack was "fishing" on the City side of Whitechapel might have had something to do with "H" Division police being possibly more active/alert in the "heart" of Whitechapel itself, owing to the Stride murder. Whether he killed Stride or not, she might have proven a useful decoy for him.

Gareth,

The City boys were just as alert as their Met brothers. Patrols had been stepped up on the 'border', they had been told to keep an eye out for couples and though Halse, Marriott and Outram were conducting routine patrols they were very aware of the situation of the past few weeks. This is clear in Halses movement into Whitechapel after he was told of Eddowes murder.

Incidently. Strides murder was being telegraphed to various Police Stations. I suspect PC190H had been informed of another possible murder by his beat Seargent during his patrol. And he himself may have been notified via the Inspector who had picked up that cable from the station.

Why a contigency plan when abort would have made more sense? I dont think he knew about Strides death and I think he was purely Aldgate way because the getting would have been good there. It was a bustling area, known pick up points with places top blend in. Another main thororughfare to work off.

Im not certain he planned to cross City and Met to cause confusion, just to get what he wanted.

Monty