The Double Event and the 'break': what was he doing?

[Billy Bulger]

Hi everyone, I was wondering is anyone else interested in speculating just what the Ripper was doing between the times (approximate) 2:20 and 2:55 on the nite of the Double Event.
I am writing this thread on the premise of many an assumption - albeit relatively safe ones - the first of which being that the Ripper did indeed murder Elizabeth Stride; secondly that it was he who deposited the piece of Catherine Eddowes apron; and thirdly that the testimonies of officers Halse and Long are free of error.
The following is an extract taken from Phillip Sugden's The complete history of Jack the Ripper (2006, Robinson, 4th Edition, pg.187):
PC Long, whose beat embraced Goulston Street, patrolled it at about 2:20. Although he passed the spot where he would afterwards find the apron he was positive it had not been there then. And Daniel Halse, who passed by the same spot at about the same time in pursuit of the criminal, also failed to notice anything...if their testimony is to be depended upon the apron was deposited at Wentworth Model Dwellings some time between 2:20 and 2:55, as mucha s thrity six to seventy one minutes after Watkins discovered the body in Mitre Square. The murderer could have reached Goulston Street in five minutes from the square so where he was, and what he was doing during the intervening time is a mystery. (Sugden, 2006)
So just what was Jack the Ripper doing? Where did he go? I'm terribly interested to know of any theories anyone has, so lets open up the floor! Did he go back to Buckingham Palace to tell Her Majesty how the night was going so far? Did he have a quick pop around to Cleveland Street to see what the talent was like that nite? Or did he go home? If so wouldnt this suggest he was local-at least relatively so? Personally speaking it seems unlikely that he would have gone to a public house or socialised in the intervening time- surely his mindset would not have allowed him to do so. There was, from what we know very little in the way of bleeding in the case of Liz Stride but nevertheless maybe the Ripper did indeed go home to clean up, change clothes. Isnt there a variation in dress description given by witnesses who seen (or thought they seen) Liz with the Ripper and the clothing worn by the Ripper according to witnesses' description given in the case of Catherine Eddowes?
It may seem trivial but I do believe that the ample break in time disussed here on the nite of the double murder potentially offers us a clue as to just who Jack the Ripper was.
So in closing, if anyone has any theories concerning the above, you're welcome to offer them here. xx


Regards,
Billy Bulger

[Mike Covell]

He ran back to the London Hospital, changed his neck tie, and ran back out again!

[Limehouse]

Perhaps the killer did not kill Liz Stride at all. Perhaps he killed Eddowes, went home to clean up, then went out again to deposit the piece of bloody apron in Goulston Street.

Alternatively, the piece of apron could have initially been disposed of soon after the murder elsewhere on the killer's route and was perhaps carried to the spot in Goulston Street by a dog or another person. Seems unlikely however. I favour the idea of the ripper cleaning his knife and hands and flinging the rag into the doorway as he passed. (I think Rumbelow described it similarly). Perhaps it was flung further into the darker reaches of the archway where it lurked during the PCs' beat but was kicked further out of the doorway by someone leaving the building a bit later.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Billy,

I am writing this thread on the premise of many an assumption - albeit relatively safe ones - the first of which being that the Ripper did indeed murder Elizabeth Stride

Given that the Stride murder happened long before the "break" in question, it might be better not to bring the vexed question of who killed her into the equation. I can't see how it would have influenced matters.

[kensei]

I don't think he was necessarily "doing" anything during the time in question, or the entire time between the Eddowes murder and whenever he was able to reach his home base, other than very cautiously and nervously ducking from one dark alley to another and constantly looking around for cops. (Nervous, though he may have gotten a rush from the adrenalin.)

There is also the question of whether or not he stopped long enough to write the graffito.

[Elias]

Well there's the theory that he used the piece of apron to carry the organs he'd removed from Eddowes, going to his place to despose of the organs, maybe having a clean up and a change of clothes, checking how busy the area was, before going out quickly to deposit the apron. I often thought that Jack must've lived very close to Goulston Street, and this theory adds weight to it I think.

The simplest answer is usually the right one - maybe the apron was simply not spotted in the dark for a while.

[cats meat man]

Were the premises of Kearley and Tonges ever searched during this time or at all that night?Perhaps Jack was hiding inside and waiting for the opportunity to return home.Another theory of mine is this:
Kearley and Tonge's night watchman,George James Morris could also have been involved in the murder of Catherine Eddowes as an accomplice/accessory.Fearing a search of his premises to be imminent he panics as he is aware that Jack still has the piece of Catherine's apron in his possession.They then make plans for Jack to escape and dispose of the apron piece along the way.Why were the premises of Kearley and Tonges not searched?

[Sam Flynn]

Were the premises of Kearley and Tonges ever searched during this time or at all that night?Perhaps Jack was hiding inside and waiting for the opportunity to return home.

He'd have had a heck of a long wait, Rob! The easiest explanation to believe is that the Ripper got out of Mitre Square as quickly as possible, dumped the apron shortly thereafter, and Long simply missed it the first time round.

[cats meat man]

Hi Sam
Yes,there is that possibility but how much time was there to escape if PC Watkins approaching Mitre Square was the reason that Jack ,and possibly George Morris had to scarper?Was the warehouse door of Kearley and Tonges the nearest and most logical opportunity that presented itself at that moment?It seemed to be the most logical place that PC Watkins headed for after the discovery of the murder of Catherine Eddowes.Once Jack was inside the warehouse he could have decided to lay low until the activity in the surrounding areas outside had died down hence the lapse in time between the murder and when the apron piece was discovered in the Goulston Street doorway.I still wonder why the premises of Kearley and Tonges weren't searched.

[Observer]

Hi

Amazing coincidence Billy, I have just started a thread which attempts to answer this question, we must od been writing at virtually the same time.

all the best

Observer

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Rob,

Once Jack was inside the warehouse he could have decided to lay low...

...getting in was the problem. Put yourself in Jack's shoes - would you head for an obviously-occupied building if you were looking for somewhere to lie low? Why lie low somewhere near a crime scene if you knew there was a fair chance that the rozzers would be hanging about there for some time?

[cats meat man]

Hi Sam
I guess it all depends on the theory that Jack had an accomplice in the form of the occupier of that building,George Morris the night watchman.
All the best
Rob

[Sam Flynn]

I guess it all depends on the theory that Jack had an accomplice in the form of the occupier of that building,George Morris the night watchman.

In which case, Rob, Morris was taking a huge risk in harbouring the killer - any one of those aforementioned "rozzers" might have asked to come in for a cup of tea!

Seriously, if Jack had a safe haven in K&T's why didn't he safely dispose of the apron there, scrub up, and scarper once his "accomplice" had told him the coast was clear in the Square - which, incidentally, might not have been until quite a time after Long spotted the apron in Goulston Street.

[cats meat man]

Hi Sam
Kand T's was a big enough place to safely hide in even if anyone popped in for a brew.If Jack left the apron piece in K and T's,who could that incriminate if discovered during a search?This is why I believe that George could have told Jack to sling his hook and dispose of the apron piece along the way.I think it all depends on wether or not George Morris was an accomplice of Jack.In my opinion,Jack took big risks in entering Mitre Square that night which is why I see the possibility of an accomplice involved and this also applies to other murder locations.
All the best
Rob

[Fisherman]

Hi Rob!

You write:
"Jack took big risks in entering Mitre Square that night which is why I see the possibility of an accomplice involved and this also applies to other murder locations"

Do you mean accomplices that would have functioned as lookouts? Or do you mean that Morris played a role in the other murders too?
I find it all a bit strange to believe in either way. What was there in the deal for anybody who helped the Ripper in such a case? What was their respective driving forces?

I think that the Ripper was the loneliest man on Mother Earth at the time he committed the murders, in more than one respect.

All the best,

Fisherman