More Info on Thomas Allman

[MrBarnett]

Name Katherine Barnetto
Event Type Marriage
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year 1885
Registration District Holborn
County London
Event Place Holborn, London, England
Volume 1B
Page 1042
Line Number 81

Pat.......

I've sent off for the cert, out of curiosity. Why Holborn? Portpool Street?

Now's not the time for Robert to find one in the sleeve of his Eat A Peach LP!

[Paddy]

Did her daughter Catherine live more up that way when she married?
Pat...

[MrBarnett]

And I'm sure there were dozens of women who grew up in that environment who never subjected their children to that kind of abuse.

She apparently smashed the head of her youngest stepchild against the fireplace. And then she went (on more than one occasion) to the other end of the Ratcliffe Highway and persuaded her abused stepdaughter to give her the key to the brothel the child was sheltering in so she could steal from it.

Let's not kid ourselves that this women was an innocent victim of dastardly male violence. That's not to excuse Thomas Allman's attack(s) on her, just to put it into context.

[MrBarnett]

Did her daughter Catherine live more up that way when she married?
Pat...

Yes, she did, which may explain it.

[Paddy]

Joseph Barnetts mum was living with Thomas Allman in 1881 census in Cohens buildings (see Below) It could be that she got ill and went to be cared for by her daughter and Thomas decided to make an honest woman of her. after having lived with her.
1881 census

Cohens Buildings Thomas Allman Head Widower 58 1823 Male General Lab Ireland
Cohens Buildings Margaret Allman Daughter 21 1860 Female Seed Warehouse Assistant Whitechapel Middlesex England
Cohens Buildings Catherine Burnett Servant Widow 58 1823 Female Sack Maker

[MrBarnett]

Joseph Barnetts mum was living with Thomas Allman in 1881 census in Cohens buildings (see Below) It could be that she got ill and went to be cared for by her daughter and Thomas decided to make an honest woman of her. after having lived with her.
1881 census

Cohens Buildings Thomas Allman Head Widower 58 1823 Male General Lab Ireland
Cohens Buildings Margaret Allman Daughter 21 1860 Female Seed Warehouse Assistant Whitechapel Middlesex England
Cohens Buildings Catherine Burnett Servant Widow 58 1823 Female Sack Maker

Could well be, Paddy. If so, it gives us a different slant on the man's character.

I think it might be Robert's turn to stump up for Catherine's death cert (or go halfsies with his mate McCates).

[Robert]

Anon, anon! Who said anything about a death certificate?

[Paddy]

1871 census Catherine Barnett

This could also be Catherine Barnett in No 5 Glass House Street Aldgate in the 1871 census also ?

Thomas Allman Head 49 1822 Male Cork Ireland
45 Margaret Allman Daughter 12 1859 Female Whitechapel Middlesex England
45 Catherine Barnett Servant 48 1823 Female Cork Ireland

Pat..............................

[Paddy]

1881 death or 1885 for Catherine Barnett.

I would think the Catherine I have shown with Thomas Allman in 1871 and 1881 appears to be Josephs mother, as the only other Catherine (AKA Kitty) Barnett I can find that may have died in 1881 was with her husband Asher in 1871.

Pat.....

[Joolz]

Barnetto Ilumination

Would be very interesting to have the details of the Katherine Barnetto & Thomas Allman marriage .

[MrBarnett]

Would be very interesting to have the details of the Katherine Barnetto & Thomas Allman marriage .

Apologies for not posting this earlier.

Post 28 here has the details and there are also some intersting points from Debra about the witness Katherin Beer and the bride's father's name (Shannon).

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=13840

[MrBarnett]

'Barnetto' Marriage Cert:

On 6/5/1885, Thomas Allman (62) and Katherine Barnetto (58) married in the parish church of St. Alban the Martyr, Holborn (CofE).

He was a widower, she a widow and they both lived at 30, Baldwin's Gardens.

He was a labourer, the son of William Allman, a nail maker.
No occupation was shown for her. Her father was Joseph Shannon, a labourer.

The witnesses were David Bethell (signed) and Katherine Beer (made her mark).

[Debra A]

London Catholic records

We have the baptism of a Joseph Barnett, born 17th April 1858, just one month earlier than our Joseph Barnett, his parents are John Barnett and Catherine Bryan.The baptism is carried out at St Mary & St Michael church in the Parish of Commercial Road, Stepney

Die 17 aprilis 1858 nat ly
et die 25 aprilis 1858 baptizat ly est
Josephus Barnett fili Joannis et Catharine (olim Bryan)
conjugum: [blank] a me Joanni? Alanton
Patrinius fuit Patritis Barnett Matrina fuit Helena Hayes



We also have the baptism of a Daniel Barnett born 26 Oct 1851 and baptised 02 Nov 1851, his parents are John Barnett and Catherine Brien. The baptism is carried out at St Mary & St Michael church in the Parish of Commercial Road, Stepney.

Both these two records correspond to our Joseph Barnett and his brother Daniel and both seem to have the same parents names, just different spellings of Brien/Bryan. In fact, on a quick look, there appears to be no other Daniel Barnett b c 1851 +/- 5 years in London as far as I can tell but stand to be corrected as one may have died.

Then we have a John Barnett born 17 Jun 1860 and baptised 24 Jun 1860, his parents are John Barnett and Catherine shanehan. The baptism is carried out
at St Mary & St Michael church in the Parish of Commercial Road, Stepney.

The maiden name of Shanehan given for John's mother Catherine directly corresponds to the marriage record you posted, Gary, showing Catherine Barnetto, maiden surname Shannon. We know this is Joseph's mother because the marriage was apparently witnessed by Joseph's sister, Catherine Beer, nee Barnett.

The birth details of this John correspond to Joseph's brother in birth year, although there is another John Barnett born the same year.

Could John Barnett senior have first married Catherine Bryam/Brien and had his older children Denis, Catherine, Daniel and Joseph with her and then she died and he married Catherine Shanehan/Shannon and had John?!

Just throwing that in for thoughts.


Also:
Bearing in mind the maiden name Brien in the Barnett baptisms posted; here's an interesting baptism: Its for a Margaret Allman born 20 Oct 1859 and baptised 30 Oct 1859, father Thomas Allman mother Maria Allman maiden name Brien carried out at St Mary & St Michael church in the Parish of Commercial Road, Stepney.

This record corresponds to the daughter of Thomas Allman who married Catherine Barnett.

[Robert]

The trouble is, Debs, we still have the Hayes/Bryan birth cert/baptism cert contradiction to explain for Joseph, unless it was simply a mix-up over the godmother.

[Paddy]

On the GRO Birth Index the mother is named as Hayes?

BARNETT, JOSEPH Mothers maiden name : HAYES
GRO Reference: 1858 J Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 392

Pat.....