Dr. George Bagster Phillips

[Tom_Wescott]

You're jumping to conclusions a little there, Nats.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Natalie Severn]

they clearly didnt call him Bagster for nothing.......

[Simon Wood]

Hi Tom and Norma,

It's hard to know what Phillips took home from Millers Court. If it was body parts then he took them with him to the post-mortem the next day [see below]. Maybe he had an ice-cabinet at his home surgery. I think 1888 was too early for refrigerators.

The Times 12-11-88

"As early as half past 7 on Saturday morning, Dr. Phillips, assisted by Dr. Bond (Westminster), Dr. Gordon Brown (City), Dr. Duke (Spitalfields) and his (Dr. Phillips') assistant, made an exhaustive post-mortem examination of the body at the mortuary adjoining Whitechapel Church. It is known that after Dr. Phillips "fitted" the cut portions of the body into their proper places no portion was missing. At the first examination which was only of a cursory character, it was thought that a portion of the body had gone, but this is not the case. The examination was most minutely made, and lasted upwards of 2 ˝ hours after which the mutilated portions were sewn to the body, and therefore the coroner's jury will be spared the unpleasant duty of witnessing the horrible spectacle presented to those who discovered the murder."

It's interesting that in this account Bond was assisting Phillips, and not the other way around. Also that Phillips' "copious notes of the result of the post-mortem examination" have not survived and all we are left with is Bond's report.

Regards,

Simon

[Natalie Severn]

That is interesting Simon. So Dr Phillips"s notes have disappeared as well as,presumably, his comments on what had been found out about the contents of the fireplace that were placed in a bucket.I know Abberline scrutinised the fire place contents.I wonder if anything did turn up of note?
Again thanks for this information,it does seem to show Dr Phillips in a different light.
Norma

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Here's a possible clue to the topic of conversation between Doctor George Bagster Phillips and Charles Beilby Stuart-Wortley, Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, at the House of Commons on the evening of the Millers Court murder [November 9].

On November 10, the day after Phillips' meeting, the following notice was issued. It appeared in The Times, 12 November 1888—



And the following appeared in the Echo, 12 November 1888—

"It is asserted that the Home Secretary's offer of a pardon to any accomplice was mainly at the instigation of Dr. G. B. Phillips, the Divisional Surgeon of the H Division, who pointed out to the authorities at the Home Office the desirability of such a step being taken."

Coincidence? If not, why would Her Majesty's Government take the advice of a Divisional Surgeon on the matter of pardons to accomplices?

Regards,

Simon

[paul emmett]

Coincidence? If not, why would Her Majesty's Government take the advice of a Divisional Surgeon on the matter of pardons to accomplices.

Hello, Simon, All.

Great thread! I have learned a lot. Simon, the above quote has to be correct. Phillips knows something. What do you think? Also interesting that last week you brought up the conversation between Phillips and Stuart-Wortley, on the "Last Witness" thread, but then I just missed it. Sorry, as I said, I'm learning.

Tom, do we know anything more about what the Doc took home?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Paul,

From my reading of events, all I can say is that Doctor Phillips knew more than he was willing/allowed to state as a matter of record.

Regards,

Simon

[Natalie Severn]

....and one of the things the good doctor knew,was that there were three people in the room that night!
Lets guess....Mary,and could it have been Mr Astrakhan and Mr Carroty Moustache? ? ?

Thanks for this Simon.A real treat it is too!
Best
Norma

[paul emmett]

Hi, Norma. Interesting point. But how do you think he knew that?

[Natalie Severn]

Well Paul,I dont to be honest!But thinking about it,Mary was seen with old carotty moustache at about 11.30 -I seem to remember, and nobody saw him leave -he was listening to Mary"s rendition of "violets" well into the night.Mary went out at 2 am---and according to Hutchinson she then greeted Mr Astrakhan with the [code?] words,"I have lost my handkerchief" and on cue he produced a red handkerchief and they both walked off, arm in arm,laughing .

Now Dr Phillips clearly suspects only one of them of being the murderer,the other he thinks was an accomplice. As for what he found that gave rise to his suspicions that there was the murderer and another person, who may have assisted the murderer, could it have been a red handkerchief and an empty quart can ?
Best
Norma

[Simon Wood]

Hi Paul and Norma,

Don't let's put the cart before the horse. So far all this is speculation, and it must remain so until we have more to work with. Putting Mr Astrakhan and/or Mr Blotchy in Room 13 with our unknown victim is a real stretch.

If two plus two does equal four all we can deduce thus far is the following—

Doctor Phillips suspected that more than one person was involved in the Millers Court murder and informed HMG as such on the evening of November 9th.

Based on Phillips' suspicions HMG issued a pardon to an accomplice on November 10th.

But at the same time, and for reasons unknown, the police gave nobody cause to believe the "MJK" murder was anything other than the work of a lone "Ripper".

Solve that conundrum and we're home and dry.

Regards,

Simon

[Natalie Severn]

I wonder too Simon,if our friend Hutch read of the "pardon" to be given to the Ripper"s "accomplice" in The Times of 12th November 1888 ,which caused him to pop into Commercial Street Police Station and ask for that interview with Abberline?
I wonder did he say those things to Abberline or did he say different things to Abberline,which were given the subterfuge of a "walkabout "in Petticoat Lane , the pretext of a "signed statement" and the promise of a safe house?Abberline did something similar regarding the Cleveland St Scandal.Neither the Cleveland Street"s disgraced owners nor Hutchinson were ever seen or heard of again remember.
A Hutchinson "look out" might even begin to make some sort of sense!
Best
Norma-------blown away by all this new stuff!

[Simon Wood]

Hi Norma,

GH as accomplice? Quite possible. But to whom?

Maybe GH's sudden disappearance from the face of the earth was part and parcel of an early witness protection programme. If so, was GH his real name?

Abberline scaled new heights of dubiousness on the Cleveland Street scandal, so I'm not ready to rule anything out.

Regards,

Simon

[Natalie Severn]

Thats the way it seems to be shaping Simon.But I must get some sleep now as its nearly midnight here.I was wide awake at 5.30 am because of the Ripper meeting at docklands- a fascinating afternoon and evening it was too......Robin Odell,Stewart Evans and Paul Begg all gave great talks there and Rob House was there from America with lots of interesting things to tell us.

Cheers
Norma

[paul emmett]

Hello Norma and Simon

Your ideas on GH would certianly explain both the stereotyped JTR description that GH was supposed to give, and why Abberline changed his mind so quickly regarding GH's supposed suspect.

But as far as disappearing, don't most of the characters in the JTR drama just slip into the oblivion of history? Is it different with George? And who did George rat out?

I also agree with Simon that 2+2=4. Phillips suspected that more than one person was "involved" in the killing of MJK. What could make a doctor think that?