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  #1  
Old 03-30-2018, 10:56 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is online now
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Default Some information about bawdy-houses in 19th century London

I thought there was a forum for Victorian information, but I no longer see it.

This link is to actress Alex Kingston's episode of "Who Do You Think You Are?" in which she learned that an ancestor, widowed and with children, began to operate "lodging-houses" in 1827, which seem from police records and news accounts to have been "disorderly" or "bawdy-houses"-- yet the woman died in the 1870s with a fair amount of a legacy in property and houses.

https://youtu.be/EGah5bmb6Zw

I thought it was an interesting account of why some women with Independence and intelligence would want to stay single and turn to that business.
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Old 03-31-2018, 02:45 AM
martin wilson martin wilson is offline
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I've lost the source but I have read online about prostitution in the LVP.
The author proposed the same, that prostitution, rather than being the pitiable condition we assume, offered freedom and financial independence.
Alcoholism seemed to play a major part in the demise of many, sometimes seen as comfort drinking but perhaps also because they had the means and opportunity.
Like many, I've read through newspaper reports of the period, enough to suspect that genealogists may get a nasty surprise when researching their predecessors.

All the best.
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Old 03-31-2018, 03:16 AM
miss marple miss marple is offline
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Prostitution was mainly run by women before the 20th century. Many women started off in brothels and the smart one ended up running them. There were not many jobs where women could be independent, have control and earn large sums of money, they were banned from professions and if they married their income became the property of their husbands.
There were great courtesans from the 17th century onwards who made fortunes, and were kept by royalty and members of the aristocracy and sometimes married into the upper classes.
There were a number of brothels catering to 'exotic tastes'
I have posted about Mrs Jeffries famous 19th century brothel keeper and how her brothels were protected from prosecution and police were routinely bribed as most of her clients were from the upper classes. Things began to change with the passing of the 'Criminal Law Amendment Act in 1885.
It was not easy being a respectable women, when police could arrest you for walking alone down Regent St and accuse you of being a prostitute, see the extradinary case of Miss Cass 1882.
Also the pernicious and evil 'Contagious Diseases Act' passed in 1864, followed by others in 1866 and 1869 The government was worried about high levels of venereal diseases among military men, so any prostitute could be examined and given a certificate if she was free of disease. Men of course could not pass on VD only women! Unfortunately the consequences of the act criminalised many respectable women and young girls who were picked up off the streets forcibly given an intrusive internal examination often causing girls to lose there virginity. The idea was that if diseased women were taken off the streets VD would magically disappear!
Josephine Butler spent years fighting the act facing ridicule and violence before it was repealed in 1880.
Working in the sex trade could be both liberating and destructive for women but no more so than maintaining respectibilty and the limitations placed on their lives.

Miss Marple
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Old 03-31-2018, 08:34 AM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pcdunn View Post
I thought there was a forum for Victorian information, but I no longer see it.

This link is to actress Alex Kingston's episode of "Who Do You Think You Are?" in which she learned that an ancestor, widowed and with children, began to operate "lodging-houses" in 1827, which seem from police records and news accounts to have been "disorderly" or "bawdy-houses"-- yet the woman died in the 1870s with a fair amount of a legacy in property and houses.

https://youtu.be/EGah5bmb6Zw

I thought it was an interesting account of why some women with Independence and intelligence would want to stay single and turn to that business.
Suddenly I think of one of Shaw's first major plays -"Mrs. Warren's Profession".

Jeff
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Old 03-31-2018, 09:38 AM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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Thank you for that site you gave on YouTube. I have just finished watching the episode about Alex Kingston's family, and it is like that PBS series about genealogy that is on every year. There was more than the ancestor who was running several bordellos (that got classier as the decades passed. There was also the interesting business about the great grandfather who was killed at Paschendalle in 1917.

Jeff
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Old 03-31-2018, 02:53 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is online now
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Default The hazards of doing genealogy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayerling View Post
Thank you for that site you gave on YouTube. I have just finished watching the episode about Alex Kingston's family, and it is like that PBS series about genealogy that is on every year. There was more than the ancestor who was running several bordellos (that got classier as the decades passed. There was also the interesting business about the great grandfather who was killed at Paschendalle in 1917.

Jeff
You're welcome, Jeff. I've been watching a number of episodes from the various International versions of WDYTYA (U.K., Australia, even Ireland), and learning a lot of history about world events around both Wars, the Irish Independence movement, and life in the British empire after WWII. Such fascinating and often sad stories of the human race.
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Old 04-01-2018, 03:52 AM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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The program I'm referring to on PBS is hosted by Professor Henry Gates. It is quite interesting, each episode dealing with three current celebrities, and tracing their ancestries back as far as they can.

Jeff
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Old 04-01-2018, 02:00 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayerling View Post
The program I'm referring to on PBS is hosted by Professor Henry Gates. It is quite interesting, each episode dealing with three current celebrities, and tracing their ancestries back as far as they can.

Jeff
Yes, I know, it is called "Finding Your Roots", and mostly features American celebrities. There was a small scandal a few years ago when Ben Affleck apparently pressured Henry Gates to withhold the information that Affleck's ancestors were slave-owners, and Gates did, but later admitted the truth to PBS. The show has continued, and is very interesting, but we don't learn the breadth of world history that we do on "Who Do You Think You Are?"

I initially only knew of the American and British versions of the program, but have since learned that Australian and Irish television also have their own versions.

Do you do genealogy, by the way?
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Old 04-01-2018, 05:19 PM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pcdunn View Post
Yes, I know, it is called "Finding Your Roots", and mostly features American celebrities. There was a small scandal a few years ago when Ben Affleck apparently pressured Henry Gates to withhold the information that Affleck's ancestors were slave-owners, and Gates did, but later admitted the truth to PBS. The show has continued, and is very interesting, but we don't learn the breadth of world history that we do on "Who Do You Think You Are?"

I initially only knew of the American and British versions of the program, but have since learned that Australian and Irish television also have their own versions.

Do you do genealogy, by the way?
I dabble a little in it. About twenty years ago my office in lower Manhattan was near the Surrogate's Court House, which has an interesting library. I looked up some birth certificate numbers and sent for the rolls of recorded birth certificates for my mother's mother and her siblings. I still have them.
But I never really got into it. A college chum of mine had a mother who did - she was checking sources in Britain and America, because they might have been related to the family of the Tudor poet, Sir Thomas Wyatt, and she found they were related to the wealthy Brown Brothers of Wall Street fame (who also founded Brown University). I never had the inclination to dig that far.

Have you gotten deeply involved in genealogical research?

Jeff
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:22 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayerling View Post
I dabble a little in it. About twenty years ago my office in lower Manhattan was near the Surrogate's Court House, which has an interesting library. I looked up some birth certificate numbers and sent for the rolls of recorded birth certificates for my mother's mother and her siblings. I still have them.
But I never really got into it. A college chum of mine had a mother who did - she was checking sources in Britain and America, because they might have been related to the family of the Tudor poet, Sir Thomas Wyatt, and she found they were related to the wealthy Brown Brothers of Wall Street fame (who also founded Brown University). I never had the inclination to dig that far.

Have you gotten deeply involved in genealogical research?

Jeff
Yeah I have, got no it when I was bedridden, gave me something to do, same thing actual ugh me to Casebook.

Found a few famous and rich, not that itís done me much good though.
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