Some information about bawdy-houses in 19th century London

[Pcdunn]

I thought there was a forum for Victorian information, but I no longer see it.

This link is to actress Alex Kingston's episode of "Who Do You Think You Are?" in which she learned that an ancestor, widowed and with children, began to operate "lodging-houses" in 1827, which seem from police records and news accounts to have been "disorderly" or "bawdy-houses"-- yet the woman died in the 1870s with a fair amount of a legacy in property and houses.

https://youtu.be/EGah5bmb6Zw

I thought it was an interesting account of why some women with Independence and intelligence would want to stay single and turn to that business.

[martin wilson]

I've lost the source but I have read online about prostitution in the LVP.
The author proposed the same, that prostitution, rather than being the pitiable condition we assume, offered freedom and financial independence.
Alcoholism seemed to play a major part in the demise of many, sometimes seen as comfort drinking but perhaps also because they had the means and opportunity.
Like many, I've read through newspaper reports of the period, enough to suspect that genealogists may get a nasty surprise when researching their predecessors.

All the best.

[miss marple]

Prostitution was mainly run by women before the 20th century. Many women started off in brothels and the smart one ended up running them. There were not many jobs where women could be independent, have control and earn large sums of money, they were banned from professions and if they married their income became the property of their husbands.
There were great courtesans from the 17th century onwards who made fortunes, and were kept by royalty and members of the aristocracy and sometimes married into the upper classes.
There were a number of brothels catering to 'exotic tastes'
I have posted about Mrs Jeffries famous 19th century brothel keeper and how her brothels were protected from prosecution and police were routinely bribed as most of her clients were from the upper classes. Things began to change with the passing of the 'Criminal Law Amendment Act in 1885.
It was not easy being a respectable women, when police could arrest you for walking alone down Regent St and accuse you of being a prostitute, see the extradinary case of Miss Cass 1882.
Also the pernicious and evil 'Contagious Diseases Act' passed in 1864, followed by others in 1866 and 1869 The government was worried about high levels of venereal diseases among military men, so any prostitute could be examined and given a certificate if she was free of disease. Men of course could not pass on VD only women! Unfortunately the consequences of the act criminalised many respectable women and young girls who were picked up off the streets forcibly given an intrusive internal examination often causing girls to lose there virginity. The idea was that if diseased women were taken off the streets VD would magically disappear!
Josephine Butler spent years fighting the act facing ridicule and violence before it was repealed in 1880.
Working in the sex trade could be both liberating and destructive for women but no more so than maintaining respectibilty and the limitations placed on their lives.

Miss Marple

[Mayerling]

I thought there was a forum for Victorian information, but I no longer see it.

This link is to actress Alex Kingston's episode of "Who Do You Think You Are?" in which she learned that an ancestor, widowed and with children, began to operate "lodging-houses" in 1827, which seem from police records and news accounts to have been "disorderly" or "bawdy-houses"-- yet the woman died in the 1870s with a fair amount of a legacy in property and houses.

https://youtu.be/EGah5bmb6Zw

I thought it was an interesting account of why some women with Independence and intelligence would want to stay single and turn to that business.

Suddenly I think of one of Shaw's first major plays -"Mrs. Warren's Profession".

Jeff

[Mayerling]

Thank you for that site you gave on YouTube. I have just finished watching the episode about Alex Kingston's family, and it is like that PBS series about genealogy that is on every year. There was more than the ancestor who was running several bordellos (that got classier as the decades passed. There was also the interesting business about the great grandfather who was killed at Paschendalle in 1917.

Jeff

[Pcdunn]

The hazards of doing genealogy

Thank you for that site you gave on YouTube. I have just finished watching the episode about Alex Kingston's family, and it is like that PBS series about genealogy that is on every year. There was more than the ancestor who was running several bordellos (that got classier as the decades passed. There was also the interesting business about the great grandfather who was killed at Paschendalle in 1917.

Jeff

You're welcome, Jeff. I've been watching a number of episodes from the various International versions of WDYTYA (U.K., Australia, even Ireland), and learning a lot of history about world events around both Wars, the Irish Independence movement, and life in the British empire after WWII. Such fascinating and often sad stories of the human race.

[Mayerling]

The program I'm referring to on PBS is hosted by Professor Henry Gates. It is quite interesting, each episode dealing with three current celebrities, and tracing their ancestries back as far as they can.

Jeff

[Pcdunn]

The program I'm referring to on PBS is hosted by Professor Henry Gates. It is quite interesting, each episode dealing with three current celebrities, and tracing their ancestries back as far as they can.

Jeff

Yes, I know, it is called "Finding Your Roots", and mostly features American celebrities. There was a small scandal a few years ago when Ben Affleck apparently pressured Henry Gates to withhold the information that Affleck's ancestors were slave-owners, and Gates did, but later admitted the truth to PBS. The show has continued, and is very interesting, but we don't learn the breadth of world history that we do on "Who Do You Think You Are?"

I initially only knew of the American and British versions of the program, but have since learned that Australian and Irish television also have their own versions.

Do you do genealogy, by the way?

[Mayerling]

Yes, I know, it is called "Finding Your Roots", and mostly features American celebrities. There was a small scandal a few years ago when Ben Affleck apparently pressured Henry Gates to withhold the information that Affleck's ancestors were slave-owners, and Gates did, but later admitted the truth to PBS. The show has continued, and is very interesting, but we don't learn the breadth of world history that we do on "Who Do You Think You Are?"

I initially only knew of the American and British versions of the program, but have since learned that Australian and Irish television also have their own versions.

Do you do genealogy, by the way?

I dabble a little in it. About twenty years ago my office in lower Manhattan was near the Surrogate's Court House, which has an interesting library. I looked up some birth certificate numbers and sent for the rolls of recorded birth certificates for my mother's mother and her siblings. I still have them.
But I never really got into it. A college chum of mine had a mother who did - she was checking sources in Britain and America, because they might have been related to the family of the Tudor poet, Sir Thomas Wyatt, and she found they were related to the wealthy Brown Brothers of Wall Street fame (who also founded Brown University). I never had the inclination to dig that far.

Have you gotten deeply involved in genealogical research?

Jeff

[GUT]

I dabble a little in it. About twenty years ago my office in lower Manhattan was near the Surrogate's Court House, which has an interesting library. I looked up some birth certificate numbers and sent for the rolls of recorded birth certificates for my mother's mother and her siblings. I still have them.
But I never really got into it. A college chum of mine had a mother who did - she was checking sources in Britain and America, because they might have been related to the family of the Tudor poet, Sir Thomas Wyatt, and she found they were related to the wealthy Brown Brothers of Wall Street fame (who also founded Brown University). I never had the inclination to dig that far.

Have you gotten deeply involved in genealogical research?

Jeff

Yeah I have, got no it when I was bedridden, gave me something to do, same thing actual ugh me to Casebook.

Found a few famous and rich, not that it’s done me much good though.

[Pcdunn]

I dabble a little in it. About twenty years ago my office in lower Manhattan was near the Surrogate's Court House, which has an interesting library. I looked up some birth certificate numbers and sent for the rolls of recorded birth certificates for my mother's mother and her siblings. I still have them.
But I never really got into it. A college chum of mine had a mother who did - she was checking sources in Britain and America, because they might have been related to the family of the Tudor poet, Sir Thomas Wyatt, and she found they were related to the wealthy Brown Brothers of Wall Street fame (who also founded Brown University). I never had the inclination to dig that far.

Have you gotten deeply involved in genealogical research?

Jeff

My mother was the big genealogist in my family. She started with a dial-up computer and visits to the local Latter Day Saints libraries and archives. She traced her ancestry back to Charlemagne, and found that she qualified for both the Colonial Dames Society and the Daughters of the American Revolution. Also had people in both sides of our Civil War. I have recently begun trying to reconstruct her work, using an account on Ancestry.com, and I also did a DNA test with Ancestry, finding I am mostly English, Scottish, Irish, Western European, and some Scandinavian. My dad's people came from Ireland in the era of the Potato Famine, as well as Luxembourg and the Netherlands. I seem to have a number of farmers in
both lineages. I want to get back into digging more deeply soon.
I highly recommend using an online genealogy service, of which Ancestry is probably the best.

[martin wilson]

I don't do genealogy. Well I say that but I did do a bit of research once and the only records found were a hand print and a rudimentary drawing of a bison.
I've always suspected a Viking heritage, being 6' 2", blonde and by necessity, vampire like levels of Sun avoidance.
My hometown, Wednesbury is a corruption of Wodensborough, which was the name of my school. We have a statue of Odin's horse Sleipnir overlooking the town.
I've always been puzzled by how the Vikings got here, the only river being the Tame, which is narrow and shallow. I found very little support for my theory that they arrived here on pedalos.

All the best.

[Pcdunn]

Ha, very funny, Mr. Wilson, thank you very much. I suppose the Vikings might have used Odin's horse for transportation, as it was a special steed. (Are "pedalos" those pedal-operated boats sometimes shaped like swans I've seen in British movies? Love to see a "Viking" putting about in one of those!)

[martin wilson]

Hi Pat.
Yep, that's the ones. We are about 70 miles inland from the west coast, although we do have the mighty river Severn about 15 miles away, known by the Romans as Sabrina, which I've always thought was rather lovely.
Another example of heritage statuary is the Patent Shaft gates, a major steel employer, which adorn a roundabout near the bus station.
Patent Shaft closed down some time in the mid 80's. Not a major surprise to me, my best mate worked there and the theft of tools and materials was Olympian.

All the best.

[Mayerling]

Hi Pat.
Yep, that's the ones. We are about 70 miles inland from the west coast, although we do have the mighty river Severn about 15 miles away, known by the Romans as Sabrina, which I've always thought was rather lovely.
Another example of heritage statuary is the Patent Shaft gates, a major steel employer, which adorn a roundabout near the bus station.
Patent Shaft closed down some time in the mid 80's. Not a major surprise to me, my best mate worked there and the theft of tools and materials was Olympian.

All the best.

One might say Patent Shaft got shafted by it's patently dishonest shaftees.

My apologies - couldn't ignore the comment.

Jeff