Serial Killers Who Have Inserted Themselves Into The Investigation

[GUT]

G'day Stan

Thanks I hadn't heard about the ride alongs.

As I said earlier I think that Christie deserves at least one more murder to his credit for Timothy Evans.

[Wickerman]

We can see that there is not an over abundance of examples.
Which probably speaks to the weakness of the proposal (Re - Hutchinson).

[babybird67]

Dennis Rader

is another one.

[Errata]

We can see that there is not an over abundance of examples.
Which probably speaks to the weakness of the proposal (Re - Hutchinson).

Well I think it's more important WHY there aren't more examples, to really judge the weakness of the theory.

First of all, a lot of serial killers are not identified as serial killers until they are caught. Dahmer didn't get arrested because of some investigation on the disappearances on gay men. Nobody connected it. He got pinched because her screwed up. Killers like him don't need to insert themselves into an investigation, because there is no investigation.

And then some serial killers don't need to insert themselves in an investigation because they have built in "radar" so to speak. Ted Bundy was a political player, he had several important friends, several friends in law enforcement. If the cops started asking questions about him, his friends would tell him. And according to some sources, that's exactly what happened. He didn't make these friends for the purpose of using them to alert him to questions, but it was a good perk.

And then some serial killers don't insert themselves into an investigation because getting caught just isn't in their head. Most of the clinically insane killers are like this, but it's not confined to them. The raging egotist killers also tend to fall into this category, and it's usually confirmed in their minds by "beating" the cops when questioned on related crimes. Gacy was classic in this regard. He didn't think about getting caught because he didn't think he could be caught. He beat a rape and assault charge, and cops are somewhat notorious for not investigating anything involving gay sex.

Nowadays, killers rarely have to insert themselves in an investigation because the 24 hour news cycle keeps them ridiculously informed. Without ever leaving the house they can find out when bodies are discovered, and which bodies are discovered. They know when people put it together that there is a serial killer, they know when the police find evidence of any nature, and they know when an arrest is imminent. They know when to run and when it's safe. Information that previously could only come from the cops.

So who needs to insert themselves in an investigation? Killers who obsess over control, killers who have no other way of keeping track of how close the cops are getting, killers who need the ego boost of watching the cops run in circles, killers who need to be noticed and approved by law enforcement. Not stupid. Stupid killers can't control it. Not insane killers, because that gets them caught. Not socially handicapped killers, they can't pull it off. And not cautious killers, because they know it increases their visibility.

And there are different levels of participation. Some insert themselves into an investigation by just hanging out in a cop bar listening to conversations. Low risk, low visibility, pretty good information. And some insert themselves by trying to be a "witness", actively pursuing police information. High risk, high reward, high visibility, usually backfires.

It's not about the odds here, because we don't know what kind of killer we are dealing with. Sure most serial killers don't do this, because most don't have the resources or the need. But some do, and those that do display specific traits or have specific advantages. If Jack knew cops, or knew cop hangouts it's even odds that he would take advantage of that somehow. The question is whether or not he had those resources, and if he did what level of risk he was willing to take. It's about what he needed. And thats one of those things that statistics don't help with. If 90% of serial killers don't do this, that doesn't mean Jack was 90% likely not to do this. Simply by being in the 19th century he didn't have 90% of the options 20th century killers had. Odds can't answer the question. Behavior answers the question.

[Wickerman]

So who needs to insert themselves in an investigation? Killers who obsess over control, killers who have no other way of keeping track of how close the cops are getting, killers who need the ego boost of watching the cops run in circles, killers who need to be noticed and approved by law enforcement...

There is no strong indication that Hutchinson attempted to steer the investigation. Although he did present this client otherwise unknown to police, he made no suggestion in his statement that this client was responsible for her murder, nor that he even looked the "killer" type.

Re - witness injecting themselves into an investigation.
If an example is required we only need to look at the intentionally misleading statement by Violenia, and the subsequent intent to incriminate Pizer.
As opposed to the seemingly innocent statement given by Hutchinson with no expressed intent to incriminate anyone.
It cannot be readily argued that the investigators were so easily mislead, they knew how to expose a fraud when presented with one.

And there are different levels of participation. Some insert themselves into an investigation by just hanging out in a cop bar listening to conversations. Low risk, low visibility, pretty good information. And some insert themselves by trying to be a "witness", actively pursuing police information. High risk, high reward, high visibility, usually backfires.

The former does not appear to be the case here (re Hutchinson), and there's no evidence of the latter, ie; that he tried to "pursue police information". In fact we have no indication the police shared their information with him, the press, or anyone else for that matter.

It's not about the odds here, because we don't know what kind of killer we are dealing with. Sure most serial killers don't do this, because most don't have the resources or the need. But some do, and those that do display specific traits or have specific advantages.

(in bold), and I think that is the most important point here, that this is the least likely option, which is the point I was making.

If Jack knew cops, or knew cop hangouts it's even odds that he would take advantage of that somehow.

We are likely dealing here with a period before policemen had known 'hangouts'.

What is becoming apparent is that the more points that are raised on this issue, the less the glove seems to fit Hutchinson.

[caz]

I agree that odds can't answer the question, Errata. But it is Ben's assertion that a 'significant percentage' of serial killers insert themselves into their own cases in one way or another, so that he can better argue for Hutchinson not being such a rare example if he was the ripper. It is also Ben's assertion that the vast majority of (caught) serial killers operate from within a comfort zone formed by their own local area, and that therefore the odds strongly favour the ripper following suit (even though a more remote killing field could explain why he was not caught - eg by the house-to-house searches). So it's clear that odds are important to Ben, and he'd be happier with a larger percentage than a smaller one of serial killers making voluntary contact with the authorities.

Zodiac is the only one I can immediately think of who communicated in some way but was never caught or identified. I believe Peter Kurten sent a letter (with a map?) to the police, and certainly the 'Gay Slayer', Colin Ireland, phoned the police with clues because they were failing to link his murders. When he was seen on CCTV, with a victim on the London Underground, he went to see a solicitor to make a statement to try and explain everything innocently, knowing the police would inevitably track him down and expect answers. He thought he had been careful enough not to leave evidence at any of his crime scenes, but a single fingerprint let him down in the end.

Ironically, Ireland's case would be similar to Hutch's, if the latter truly believed Sarah Lewis could have put him at the scene as surely as that CCTV image identified Ireland, and needed to get his excuses in early. But he wasn't a local man, commuting from Southend to the comfort zone of a Fulham pub, where he was able to pick up five gay strangers and murder them in the comfort of their own homes.

A rare example in more ways than one?

Love,

Caz
X

[Guest]

Hello,

The Zodiac Killer- Wrote various confirmed letters to newspapers taunting the police. He included ciphers which he claimed would reveal his identity if they were cracked, however the cipher that was cracked did not reveal a name, and the rest have not been decoded.

Dennis Rader “BTK or Bind Torture Kill” - Wrote letters to newspapers and taunted the police. Was eventually caught when he sent a disc to the police that had a deleted file the police were able to recover that referenced his church and his first name.

Neither of these killers interacted face to face or in any sort of direct contact with the police, but both did inject themselves into the investigations. These are the two I could think of off the top of my head.

I would imagine direct face to face contact with the police with the intent to insert oneself into an investigation would be extremely rare, unless precipitated by some other event that would require contacting the police.

[curious]

This doesn't meet the more than a month requirement, but . . .

from http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/pu.../serial-murder

In the Washington, D.C. area serial sniper case, John Allen Muhammad, a former U.S. Army Staff Sergeant, and Lee Boyd Malvo killed primarily for anger and thrill motivations. They were able to terrorize the greater Washington, D.C. metro area for three weeks, shooting 13 victims, killing 10 of them. They communicated with the police by leaving notes, and they attempted to extort money to stop the shootings. They are suspected in a number of other shootings in seven other states.

[GUT]

G'day Curious

I've got no trouble calling these two serial's but weren't Muhammad and Malvo's letters more about trying to get money than trying to either confuse the police or get information.

That was my take on it anyway.

[babybird67]

criminal profiling...

I think to some extent we have to accept it is statistically important aspect in the albeit small numbers of serial killers per se because otherwise criminal profilers wouldn't refer to it or have been able to note it as a trait.

Have we come up with anyone earlier than Christie yet though?

[GUT]

Wasn't Christie a "special constable" at one time?

Can anyone tell me what that would have entailed at the time?

[Sam Flynn]

I think to some extent we have to accept it is statistically important aspect in the albeit small numbers of serial killers per se because otherwise criminal profilers wouldn't refer to it or have been able to note it as a trait.

The data may well be skewed, however. The names that tend to crop up are relatively well-known killers who, incidentally are themselves only a subset of all killers. What of the much larger population of criminals (NB: criminals, not just killers) who don't make it into books or documentaries? For this reason, we know very little about them. If we knew more, then we might find that "Insertion Syndrome" is no more or less common in serial killers than it is among any other type of miscreant.

[Bridewell]

Hello,

The Zodiac Killer- Wrote various confirmed letters to newspapers taunting the police. He included ciphers which he claimed would reveal his identity if they were cracked, however the cipher that was cracked did not reveal a name, and the rest have not been decoded.

Dennis Rader “BTK or Bind Torture Kill” - Wrote letters to newspapers and taunted the police. Was eventually caught when he sent a disc to the police that had a deleted file the police were able to recover that referenced his church and his first name.

Neither of these killers interacted face to face or in any sort of direct contact with the police, but both did inject themselves into the investigations. These are the two I could think of off the top of my head.

I would imagine direct face to face contact with the police with the intent to insert oneself into an investigation would be extremely rare, unless precipitated by some other event that would require contacting the police.

Welcome to the Boards, Akeneo.

David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) was caught, in part because he wrote a letter describing himself as "The Wicked Man of Wicker" - because his address was close to Wicker Street. He wrote letters to the police because (he thought) Jack the Ripper had done so - and he wanted to emulate him. He, like BTK and Zodiac, wrote letters to the police and others. Whilst that's of interest in itself it's not inserting themselves into police investigations as witnesses. As yet, we haven't had many specific examples of those, although the thread hasn't been running very long.

Babybird67,

Unless I've missed something Christie is the earliest so far.

[Wickerman]

I think to some extent we have to accept it is statistically important aspect in the albeit small numbers of serial killers per se because otherwise criminal profilers wouldn't refer to it or have been able to note it as a trait.

The apparent need for a killer to get on the inside with police might be more related to some compulsion to be in control.

We do have good reason to identify a number of serial killers as control freaks, possibly the result of them suffering from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. This in turn may stretch to some of them going so far as to try and steer (control?) the direction of the investigation.

So this apparent need by a few to inject themselves into the investigation may be more a result of OCD, than being a Serial Killer.

[GUT]

G'Day Jon

We do have good reason to identify a number of serial killers as control freaks, possibly the result of them suffering from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. This in turn may stretch to some of them going so far as to try and steer (control?) the direction of the investigation.

We also need to take into account their massive Egos which convinces them they will never be caught, so they can do whatever they please.