The Long Island Ripper

[curious]

His apparent wealth does tie in with his age - 40s I'd say.

So why would his geographical activity be so seasonal if he is so well-off? It does seem telling that the fancier end of Long Island is his comfort zone. Maybe he has a house in the Hamptons and it is there that he is able to kill? I reckon if indeed he's too high-class to be a seasonal worker or ranger, he must therefore use the cover of solitary hobbies and pursuits while in the Hamptons for the Summer, to engage in his murders.

I didn't know about the payments to the hookers, so thanks for pointing it out. I need to a little more about it myself!

So what if this guy is still a seasonal worker on the Wildlife Reserves and suchlike, but that is actually more a hobby than a job because he's independently wealthy? Or what if his knowledge of computers and technology is because his primary - and very successful - source of income is an internet-based business?

Hi, Thanks for posting the Huffington Post link. I had not read that and notice that there is an expert who thinks there is a seasonal angle to the murders.

You ask: So why would his geographical activity be so seasonal if he is so well-off?

Maybe the wife and kids go to visit her family in the summers -- maybe overseas?

Maybe someone who summers in the Hamptons. Grew up there, but whose job takes him other places. I suspect there are other dumping grounds in his life that have yet to be discovered, and I would be really surprised if the Atlantic City murders are not his as well. and the Shannan Gilbert. Another thing Atlantic City has in common with Long Island is that it is a recreational destination (with the same sorts of parks and wildlife areas).

I think you are on to something with the tie in to the parks and wildlife areas, just not sure what yet. He could be a birdwatcher, or a visiting expert in a field that the park management regularly consults with him.

As I mentioned to you the fact that these types of natural areas hire seasonal workers might tie in. Or the areas might be selected by someone who travels in a camper (although Shannan Gilbert was taken by a driver indicating wealth to a [I] house[/I)].)

Can you imagine how excited these girls are to get a call from someone offering so much money plus a trip out to the Hamptons -- all expenses paid of course. Since one of the victims had $900 deposited in a bank account, surely there would be a way to trace that money. Plus, I don't remember how they knew about the offer of $1500 -- maybe the victim's pimp?

I wonder what might be found down along Chincoteague, Va., or the Outer Banks of North Carolina, or the Florida Keys.

However, I believe we know that:

A. He has a car or access to a vehicle (ranger could work here) -- this is because parts of the bodies from the early kills were scattered as much as 45 miles (or maybe 90 miles) apart and along deserted highways. It is my understanding that many of the seasonal workers don't take their cars with them, but use the public transportation inside the areas they work in.
However, it is possible some of the maintenance workers, etc. might have access to vehicles, don't you think? Would a killer risk using a "company vehicle"?

B. He has a private space or did -- this is because some of the bodies were dismembered. So he had to have somewhere to carry out that part of his work. Now that he is just dumping complete bodies, the private space is not as important as it once was.

C. I wonder if he is a small to average size man. All the last, identified victims are tiny 100 pounds and 5 feet tall or less. An earlier victim was 5'6" and 150 pounds, then he went to the tiny women -- there's probably a reason for that.

If the earlier victim was difficult for him and put up a good fight or nearly got away, he might have switched to smaller women who are easier to handle.

So, this might mean that he is attracted to larger women and if he is married or dates, those women will more likely fit the model of the earlier victim.

A divorce would work as a stressor. But wouldn't it need to be around 1996 or 93 (my memory isn't working today) instead of 2006 since that is about the age of the first body?


You ask: "So what if this guy is still a seasonal worker on the Wildlife Reserves and suchlike, but that is actually more a hobby than a job because he's independently wealthy? Or what if his knowledge of computers and technology is because his primary - and very successful - source of income is an internet-based business?"


That could work of course. Or he's there because of his interest in nature. With an Internet business, he could live and work anywhere and may keep returning to Long Island because it's home or he just plain likes it. Now that the bodies have been found, I really suspect he has moved on . . unless that would draw attention to him . . .

Wonder what the authorities are finding but keeping to themselves, don't you?

curious

[DarkPassenger]

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NA-BL031_BODIES_NS_20110411183305.jpg

A pretty good map but without annotations as to which bodies are which.

[DarkPassenger]

Also, being so damned wealthy isn't exactly indicative of a stressor, which is usually what sets serial killers off on their little sprees.

Serial killers will murder in batches separated by elongated cooling-off-periods and usually they are set off by stressors in their lives. Since this guy is apparently wealthy and his crimes are fuelled by a misogynistic rage against women, how about this theory;

His crimes reflect the following behaviours;

• Selection of easy targets - sex workers - but also victims he can justifiably kill in his own personal framework of self-justification. The phone calls he made to Melissa Bathelemy's sister reflect this gleeful desire to rape and kill "whores." His misogynistic rage is tied into his sexuality, so he's an anger-fuelled sexual sadist, a true "anger-excitation" sex killer.
• His pick-up of the victims reflect his ability to talk to and even manipulate women. He isn't an introverted loner, he's confident, even arrogant, and socially adept, a true psychopath.
• He disposes of the women not only by depersonalizing them (by making identification difficult in the Manorville cases), but by concealing them. His Manorville murders were found so he switched to hiding them in burlap sacks on Ocean Parkway where they won't likely be found. He doesn't care about his victims, he certainly doesn't care about them postmortem, and he doesn't care about publicity about a "serial killer on the loose." He's no missionary serial killer, not a publicity seeker; he's a control-freak sexual sadist. He likes to drive past where the bodies are and know they are there, and that's as far as it goes. Despite telling Amanda Fundeburg that he was going to "watch her rot," this expression tells us he's not necrophilic as he wouldn't have emphasised this aspect of the victim postmortem, the decomposition. He literally just disposes of them and gets his kicks while they're alive where he can humiliate, dominate and control them.
• In conclusion, he's in his 40s, a highly socially-adept sexually-sadistic psychopath whose sexual kicks with the victim begin and end with torture and domination. This tells me that he has a primary sexual outlet which doubled as a facet of his need for control in his everyday life, part of his cover as functioning member of society. He's married. Or is he...?
• What if the stressor for the more recent murders is a divorce? Such a person would be controlling, paranoid and violent in a marriage. I suspect he's had a few failed marriages and each one has kicked off a murder spree. What if his marriage broke up in around 2006 and he somehow managed to clean up in court - maybe some kind of humiliating emotional blackmail of his ex-wife forced her to bugger the case up - which, despite pocketing him a fair amount of cash, doubled as the stressor for the 2007 - 2010 murders?

[DarkPassenger]

Whew, Dark Passenger,
Reading this information kept me awake last night -- just knowing this person (and perhaps 299 others like him) are out and about in our country . . .

Had a thought after posting about the seasonal workers site. Because the killer paid the sex workers so much -- $900 and $1500 for instance -- the police believe it is someone with a good disposable income and therefore not likely to be the lowly seasonal workers.

I have no idea what rangers make, but guess that even the top rangers don't make a great deal of money. Perhaps enough for an occasional $1,000 splurge.

The authorities mention they believe the killer is someone in the upper echelon of society -- also pointed to perhaps by the killer having time and means to go to Times Square to make the harassing phone calls to the younger sister.

I've been aware of this case almost since the first bodies were found as I stumbled across an internet story and sort of checked occasionally for progress.

But I can't help wondering if something similar is just waiting to be found in other areas of the country.

creepy thought.

Could they be holding the cards so close because they think they know who the killer is but don't have enough to make an arrest?

curious

His apparent wealth does tie in with his age - 40s I'd say.

So why would his geographical activity be so seasonal if he is so well-off? It does seem telling that the fancier end of Long Island is his comfort zone. Maybe he has a house in the Hamptons and it is there that he is able to kill? I reckon if indeed he's too high-class to be a seasonal worker or ranger, he must therefore use the cover of solitary hobbies and pursuits while in the Hamptons for the Summer, to engage in his murders.

I didn't know about the payments to the hookers, so thanks for pointing it out. I need to a little more about it myself!

So what if this guy is still a seasonal worker on the Wildlife Reserves and suchlike, but that is actually more a hobby than a job because he's independently wealthy? Or what if his knowledge of computers and technology is because his primary - and very successful - source of income is an internet-based business?

[curious]

An excellent site which, if it's details are indeed correct, are incredibly useful to this thread;

http://www.altereddimensions.net/crime/LongIslandSerialKiller.aspx

It helped me address questions over the killer's evolving disposal method. I was confused by Jane Doe 4, you see. I had assumed the killer began by decapitating and de-handing the bodies and leaving them in the forest, dumping the extremities on Ocean Parkway, before moving onto dumping the bodies entirely in Ocean Parkway because both Manorville victims had been found. This site argues that Jane Doe 4's murder is in fact a logical step in the killer's evolution, and I buy it.

I have to say, no identities and few clear facts make this a frustrating case. I do wonder what the police are doing holding so many cards close to their chests with this one.

Whew, Dark Passenger,
Reading this information kept me awake last night -- just knowing this person (and perhaps 299 others like him) are out and about in our country . . .

Had a thought after posting about the seasonal workers site. Because the killer paid the sex workers so much -- $900 and $1500 for instance -- the police believe it is someone with a good disposable income and therefore not likely to be the lowly seasonal workers.

I have no idea what rangers make, but guess that even the top rangers don't make a great deal of money. Perhaps enough for an occasional $1,000 splurge.

The authorities mention they believe the killer is someone in the upper echelon of society -- also pointed to perhaps by the killer having time and means to go to Times Square to make the harassing phone calls to the younger sister.

I've been aware of this case almost since the first bodies were found as I stumbled across an internet story and sort of checked occasionally for progress.

But I can't help wondering if something similar is just waiting to be found in other areas of the country.

creepy thought.

Could they be holding the cards so close because they think they know who the killer is but don't have enough to make an arrest?

curious

[curious]

Would any kind of Ranger, or similar, operate in national parks across state lines? Would seasonality affect where they are working? Is this "wildlife park" link at all viable?

Hi, Dark Passenger,

It is very viable. Go to coolworks.com and check it out.

However, it opens the case wider than just to rangers.

good thoughts.

curious

[DarkPassenger]

An excellent site which, if it's details are indeed correct, are incredibly useful to this thread;

http://www.altereddimensions.net/crime/LongIslandSerialKiller.aspx

It helped me address questions over the killer's evolving disposal method. I was confused by Jane Doe 4, you see. I had assumed the killer began by decapitating and de-handing the bodies and leaving them in the forest, dumping the extremities on Ocean Parkway, before moving onto dumping the bodies entirely in Ocean Parkway because both Manorville victims had been found. This site argues that Jane Doe 4's murder is in fact a logical step in the killer's evolution, and I buy it.

I have to say, no identities and few clear facts make this a frustrating case. I do wonder what the police are doing holding so many cards close to their chests with this one.

[DarkPassenger]

From the dates of known disappearances, it could almost be someone on vacation.

Otherwise, would there not likely be a higher body count after all these years?

curious

I've been considering your post and the whole concept, as outlined in this page;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/21/serial-killer-expert-dr-scott-bonn_n_1290683.html

I now agree.
The fact that he seems to have killed five times in three years, but only in June, July and September (given the fact that he's at least in his 40s if Jane Doe 4 was indeed an early victim) is very unlikely. His rate of murder will have increased over time, he will kill whenever the urge takes him and whenever it is convenient, and that won't just be in the Summer. It seems these Long Island/Manorville victims are just the ones he's killed at that time of year and those dump sites are the ones he uses for those seasonal kills.

What does this tell us? Well, it tells us that he is very familiar with, and has easy access to, these locations during the Summer either as part of his own recreation or as part of some kind of work which varies in location during the seasons. In Winter he works here, in Spring he works there, in Summer he's in Long Island, etc. What kind of job could that be?

There is another thing...

The Ocean Parkway deposition sites and the Manorville deposition sites have something in common. The Ocean Parkway sites sit between several national parks and wildlife reserves; "John F. Kennedy Memorial Wildlife Sanctuary," "Gilgo State Park," and a few others east and west of the dump sites. The Manorville deposition site literally backs onto the "Long Island State Pine Barrens Preserve." What if his work revolves around these wildlife reserves? It might explain how he's so clued-into police procedure; what if he's a Forest Ranger (or "National Park Service Ranger" or whatever they're called)? According to what I've read, law enforcement is part of their repertoire.

There's even more...

There is heated debate about whether the murder in 2006 of four prostitutes in Atlantic City are linked to the Long Island Ripper. But here's another eerie connection; not only does the geography of the city scream "barrier island" in the same way as Ocean Parkway, but it seems that within an easy drive of the dumping ground - the Golden Key motel on Black Horse Pike - are several wildlife management areas and parks; "Absecon State Wildlife Management Area," "Edwin B. Forsyth National Wildlife Refuge," and the "Tuckahoe-Corbin City Fish and Wildlife Management Area." Victimology, deposition site and time of year - Summer - do seem to link these murders. Also, the method of death is similar; strangulation. What if the proximity of wildlife parks is another aspect of the killer's modus operandi, as it dictates where he'll be and what time of year? Also, where he disposes of bodies?

Would any kind of Ranger, or similar, operate in national parks across state lines? Would seasonality affect where they are working? Is this "wildlife park" link at all viable?

[curious]

I suspect he's sexually sadistic, in his 40s, confident and probably married. He probably lives in Long Island within relatively easy reach of the deposition sites.

From the dates of known disappearances, it could almost be someone on vacation.

Otherwise, would there not likely be a higher body count after all these years?

curious

[sdreid]

I think 48 Hours Mystery started following this case about 18 months ago. At first it was suggested that the killer might be a policeman or former policeman. I'm not sure why that was asserted or if it's still in the mix.

[Frank]

http://longislandserialkiller.com/

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Dark Passenger

Fascinating...I wasn't expecting quite so much detail "upfront" and am grateful to you. Clearly it's a case well worth looking into.

Thanks for that

All the best

Dave

[Abby Normal]

A very bizzare case.

I am surprised it has not gotten more attention, especially since it is recent, ongoing/unsolved and close to NY city.

Have there been any recent developments-I have not heard anything?

Perhaps the killer is laying low for a while, but i am still somewhat suspicious of the man Gilbert went to visit on LI.

Also, do you know if there has been any more gone missing since Gilbert?

[DarkPassenger]

Hi Dark Passenger...that's certainly a case which hasn't really made it in any big way across the atlantic...Maybe I'm naive but what exactly links all these killings?

All the best

Dave

For a start, the police are now officially linking them to a single serial killer, but I'll answer you properly.

All of the named victims were sex workers who plied their trade on Craigslist, all were strangled, and four of them were found dismembered and wrapped in hessian or burlap sacks in a cluster on Ocean Parkway, Long Island in December 2010. The murders had taken place between 2007 and 2010.

Jessica Taylor's head and forearm were found nearby during the 2010/11 searches, the rest of her having been found in Manorville, a nearby town, in 2003. Similarly, Jane Doe 6 was found dead in Manorville in 2000, and more remains belonging to her were found in the vicinity of the Ocean Parkway deposition site. The four named victims, and these two Manorville victims, are linked by deposition site, victimology, and as far as we can tell, modus operandi (except the unidentified Jane Doe 6, obviously. The others all used Craigslist to advertise sexual services. Maybe she did, we don't know yet).
Also, the remains of a female - Jane Doe 4 - which washed up on nearby Fire Island in 1996 have been linked via DNA to remains found near this deposition site. Finally, Jane Does 2 and 3, a mother and baby daughter, were found dumped in the same area in a similar manner, while John Doe 1 was found dead, but dressed as a woman - police suspect his murder to be the result of the single worst case of "this is NOT what I ordered!!" in world history. As for the mother and daughter, it is believed the mother may have been a sex worker who brought her child along to her client's homes during "business" simply because child care for hookers isn't exactly easy to come by - a terribly sad story if that is the case

Essentially, the Ocean Parkway and Manorville deposition sites, victimology and modus operandi seem to link the victims.

He chooses young female sex workers who ply their trade on Craigslist. He strangles them to kill them before dismembering the bodies and dumping them in woods (as in Manorville) or in thick brush along lonely stretches of highway (as in Ocean Parkway). He appears to have no interest in the victims postmortem but seems to prolong the attack on the victims while they are alive, eliciting personal information from them as in the case of Melissa Barthelemy, whose sister received a rash of phone calls from the killer. I suspect he's sexually sadistic, in his 40s, confident and probably married. He probably lives in Long Island within relatively easy reach of the deposition sites.

[Barnaby]

That Gilbert is considered an accidential drowning...