JonBenet Ramsey Case

[tji]

Hi Rob

From what I can gather the DNA evidence under the fingernails itself is inconclusive due to contamination.

I am not completely convinced by the touch DNA either, I agree it raises questions that need answering, but could there have been contamination involved at the lab maybe? If all you need are 4 or 5 skin cells then could it be a lab error rather than evidence. Also why not do touch testing on the paint brush or the garrotte or the blanket and if they did why no DNA there?

Without the results and how they were collected I think there is always goign to be doubt there.

Tracy

[Abby Normal]

The key to this case ever getting solved is the bonus money JR received and was in the letter. They need to look at everyone who could have known he got that bonus. Obviously this points to family and close friends. No stranger intruder (who did not know of the bonus amount) could have been her killer.

[tji]

I'm not ignoring anyone and I'm not implying anyone is being rude. I can only say that the internet sites where the police reports and the autopsy reports were posted years ago (when I used to be interested in this case) are not available anymore and I have NOT ONE MINUTE to conduct an internet search on this presently. I've just finished polishing a 400p German book manuscript to go to the editor's (working on this 10 hours/day during the “holidays“), I'm in the process of planning my moving to Chicago and starting writing a second book, I'm taking care of some complicated search in the Arbeter Fraint, plus planning to attempt some research on Tumblety (or at least on the Pinkerton agency) from Chicago, so it's safe to say my plate is full.

Who implied anyone was being rude, you lost me there? unless it was a dig at me in which case you really need to be more specific, I can't take offence if I don't know if they are for me!

As for the rest....bollocks! I could give you a list of what I have to do everyday - as could the majority of people on here - and you wouldn't be doing any more than anyone else, you just seem to think yours is more important.

What I would say if you haven't got 1 minute to check your (usually incorrect) comments, then don't comment until you have got the 1 minute to check them, saves us the job of correcting you.



Tracy

[Whitechurch]

Here we go again!

[ChainzCooper]

Huh? “There's much to admire in Patsy Ramsey's life“? Such as what? She took part in a few beauty pageants, married a rich guy, and decorated a house in a ghastly frilly fashion? And she raised a girl who couldn't even read or write her own name at age 6, but was having her hair regularly bleached by her mother? There are witnessed statements by a frustrated John Ramsey complaining that Patsy Ramsey was spending ridiculous amounts of his money on that house and on costumes for the beauty pageants forced on her daughter.
Patsy Ramsey's psychological profile is a casebook study for Munchausen's by proxy. And please recall how many times Jonbenčt visited her pediatrician in the year prior to her death, always on Mondays. (Which is considered as a red light for ongoing child abuse.)

Errata, regarding to the difficulty of establishing which came first, the head injury or strangulation, there are 2 possible scenarios:
1) Jonbenčt was hit on the head either by her mother (in a fit or rage or as part of ongoing abuse) or by her brother Burke (accidentally or in a kids' fight), her parents panicked, and staged the garrotting and the ransom letter.
2) Jonbenčt got strangled during abuse by one of the parents, she might have fainted, which caused the perp to panic, hit her on the head, then stage the garrotting as an attempt to hide an earlier strangulation.
There are significant details that hint to both scenarios:
- There were no petechial hemorragies in her eyes to indicate death by strangulation, and expert witnesses claimed that the way the garrotte was arranged, if it had been used on her it would have separated most of her hair from her head (as some of her hair was caught inside of the rope, also visible in the autopsy photos).Thus it's safe to say that the head trauma was her (very slow) cause of death.
- Apart from the peri-mortem attack with the paint brush, there were past traces of semi-healed injuries consistent with chronic minor sexual assault, which, combined with the frequent visits to the pediatrician (who was a friend of the Ramseys and refused to make his medical records available), raises suspicions for her having been abused by one of the parents.

The lit I'd recommend is the book by Steven Thomas (the detective initially in charge of the investigation), Perfect murder, perfect town, the book written by the medical examiner, and, if you can find it, the book written by the Ramsey's cleaning lady.

There are TONS of circumstantial evidence which points at the parents: It appears that the murder scene was initially staged in Jonbenčt's bed, then transfered to the little room in the basement after Jonbenčt's clothes were changed, while it appears that the body was washed peri-mortem, John Ramsey confessed of having broken the basement window himself, the Ramseys changed their stories pertaining to the fact that Jonbenčt was awake late at night before her death (a fact corroborated by her brother Burke), the Ramseys refuse the fact that their daughter ate pineapple shortly before her death, the ransom note was written with Patsy's pen on Patsy's paper and Patsy's handwriting was the only one who could not be excluded as the author of the ransom note, Patsy was wearing the exact same clothes as the night before, which hints that she didn't go to bed on the night of the murder, there was no stunt gun (the postmortem artifacts which a detective hired by the Ramseys characterized as coming from a stunt gun are consistent with Patsy's rings), and so on.

Interesting and informative post. I enjoy hearing your perspective on this
Jordan

[Tom_Wescott]

Huh? “There's much to admire in Patsy Ramsey's life“? Such as what? She took part in a few beauty pageants, married a rich guy, and decorated a house in a ghastly frilly fashion?

Well, becoming a Miss America contestant is not easy at all and requires much work, focus, and discipline at a young age. Not only did Patsy achieve this honor, but so did her sister. She was a success in everything she did, including her marriage to a successful man. She was diagnosed with stage IV ovarian cancer a few years before the murder and was given months to live, but vowed to live to see her children go to college. She beat the very long odds and went into remission. I believe a year after Burke went into college, the cancer came back and she died. I have not heard that Jon Benet was illiterate.

I am of the opinion that many of the books on the subject are contaminated by being prejudiced in one way or the other.

The best book on the subject is the one by Stephen Thomas, who was the chief detective investigating the case.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Wow Tom, I never expected you to be an admirer of the Miss America contest!! And since when is marriage to a successful man considered success?
Anyway, to me Patsy Ramsey looked kinda ugly and chubby, so I'm a bit puzzled about her participating in pageants. She didn't look exactly like Demi Moore or Farah Fawcett.
I've seen You Tubes of her trying to push her daughter into a dancing routine and the child looked really reluctant. She totally looked the part of a frustrated, ageing mother re-enacting her past vicariously through her daughter, which is sick. And beauty pagents isn't the same thing as ballet or gymnastics or ice-skating, it's a silly activity.
I've also read that she exaggerated her early stage III ovarian cancer (which is serious enough in itself) into a stage IV.
Oh, and Jonbenčt was definitely illiterate, she was one grade behind at school and on Xmas Day one day before her death she was asking her brother Burke to read her the name tags for their Xmas presents, she couldn't even read her own name. It's in the book written by the Ramseys themselves (Death of innocence).

[Tom_Wescott]

And since when is marriage to a successful man considered success?

Are you serious? What kind of woman are you? Haven't you read Jane Austen?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Are you serious? What kind of woman are you? Haven't you read Jane Austen?

I'm deadly serious. I've read Jane Austen and got bored. Prefer Dickens and the Bronte sisters.
I happen to believe that marrying a successful man while unsuccessful onesself is so blah. ;-) And Jane Austen was a long time ago.

[Tom_Wescott]

Well, John Ramsey married a Miss America finalist, so I guess it goes both ways. I didn't think she was particularly attractive myself.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[tji]

Jordan

Interesting and informative post. I enjoy hearing your perspective on this
Jordan

While I would never tell anyone what they can or cannot decide, there is quite a bit of Maria's post that is incorrect as pointed out in the following posts.

Tracy

[tji]

I agree with Tom to a certain extent, if what she wanted in life was to be a beauty queen, marry a rich husband and have a nice house with children then she did achieve it, (for a while at least) just because it isn't our idea of 'the perfect goal in life' doesn't give us the right to sneer.

Have you seen her pictures from when she was younger?
It doesn't matter what she looked like when she was older, she obviously wasn't 'chubby and ugly' when she got to the finals of the pageant. I personally don't think she was ugly, just...cold.

Tracy

[Whitechurch]

Maria Wrote:

Anyway, to me Patsy Ramsey looked kinda ugly and chubby, so I'm a bit puzzled about her participating in pageants. She didn't look exactly like Demi Moore or Farah Fawcett.
I've seen You Tubes of her trying to push her daughter into a dancing routine and the child looked really reluctant. She totally looked the part of a frustrated, ageing mother re-enacting her past vicariously through her daughter, which is sick. And beauty pagents isn't the same thing as ballet or gymnastics or ice-skating, it's a silly activity.
I've also read that she exaggerated her early stage III ovarian cancer (which is serious enough in itself) into a stage IV.


Maria, what an awful thing to write.

Anyone reading your post will realize that it just confirms your frustration, hatred for men, along with your unkindness and inability to show any social graces.

I really hope that nothing that has happened to the Ramsey family ever visits you.

Grow up and become more socially acceptable.

[Tom_Wescott]

Patsy was by no means ugly. I think my comment that I didn't personally find her attractive is what set Maria off, but that's not to say I thought she was unattractive, if that makes sense. And Patsy was not 'unsuccessful'. If I remember correctly, she excelled in school and in business prior to marrying John. She was 30 or 31 before she had her first child, so she hardly got married and knocked up straight out of school.

That's my whole point. If you look at Patsy's life, how happy her kids were, how well-liked she was in her community, it makes absolutely zero sense that she was involved in Jon Benet's death. However, the evidence all but rules out anyone else. I personally would love for her to be innocent, but that doesn't seem to be the case, which is why I still cling to the possibility (however unlikely) that Jon Benet's death was an accident and the staging and letter were a cover up to protect herself or Burke.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Whitechurch]

Good Post Tom