The Beast of Gevaudan

[The Good Michael]

Murders in the Rue Morgue, ca. 1845

[The Good Michael]

I always go hunting with silver bullets... just in case. I've killed whatever I've aimed at. They didn't change back to human or anything, alas.

Silver or lead made no difference to the dead animals.

Mike

[Scorpio]

Appologies for ambushing this thread, but is anyone interested in ballistics and forensics in general?. Personally, i find the subject as least as interesting as superstitious folklore and supposed links with serial crime.

[The Good Michael]

Scorpio,

I agree with you. I just don't go for that supernatural except as a bit of fun. Can't take it seriously, however.

Ballistics can be interesting.

Mike

[jason_c]

Silver is lighter than lead but only by about 8%

I think i read that the silver bullet part of the story was added at a later date.

[Abby Normal]

Hmm, this thread seems to be focusing mostly on the ballistics. If we could focus more on the beast for a moment, Good Michael mentioned a badger and sdreid a wolverine, both of which are animals of a size that would fit in your lap (though maybe not comfortably) and can both deliver nasty bites but would be hard pressed I think to literally tear a human being to pieces. I read one account of two children- a brother and sister- encountering the beast, and when the girl turned to run her brother's head suddenly came rolling past her. I don't know if that's accurate or exaggerated, but if accurate there is only a handful of animals that would be capable of such an instant projectile decapitation- a bear or a big cat. Not even a wolf (which most witnesses seemed to think the beast was) could manage it.

Badger or wolverine? Various witnesses described the beast as being different sizes, but I don't think any said it was that small. The common belief that it was a wolf should mean that it was at least as big as one of those, and there was even one witness who said it was as big as a donkey! Panicked people do tend to exaggerate, but that still suggests a huge size. Why the wide range of size estimates? Kind of raises the question of "shape shifting," doesn't it? And that is exactly what a werewolf does. If a man can shape shift into an animal, then perhaps the animal could change size too. And that sounds crazy, but if one entertains the possibility of the legend you just can't help that.

As to the theory that the killings were done by a trained animal at the direction of a human being- anyone know of any other cases in history of serial murder being carried out in that way?

Hi Kensei
it was a big wolf

[kensei]

Scorpio,

I agree with you. I just don't go for that supernatural except as a bit of fun. Can't take it seriously, however.

Ballistics can be interesting.

Mike

It is indeed fun, and I'm not insisting that it's the case, I just find it a fascinating field of speculation.

[kensei]

Murders in the Rue Morgue, ca. 1845

That's strictly fictional, isn't it?

[Pinkerton]

Thanks for a link to this story, I had never heard it before.

If this animal truly bit through bone as claimed by several witnesses then it could NOT be any kind of canine species. Wolfs can't do it, mastiff's can't do it, and even a pit bull couldn't do it. It would have to be a feline of some type or a hyena. Hyena's seem to fit the bill except they don't have long tails and only the smaller striped hyena's have longer fur while still having a bone crushing bite. However a hyena doesn't have a long snout as described by witnesses.

So either much of the story is made up, or some of the descriptions are just plain wrong.

[kensei]

An amazing coincidence- the show "The Real Wolfman" about the Gevaudan beast was on again tonight on Discovery International just as we're discussing the case. Reminded me of a few other details that suggest the werewolf explanation should perhaps not be discounted out of hand. There was a single witness, a boy, who reported seeing the beast walking on two feet. Then there was the fact that some of the female victims, in addition to being horribly mutilated and killed, appeared to have been sexually assaulted. Many would say that screams of a human serial killer, yet all witnesses agreed they were seeing an animal and no costume could possibly be that convincing. It certainly seems to suggest an animal with a human soul.

In the end though, the show concluded that a trained hyena was responsible as Pinkerton mentioned. They are indeed well known for chewing through bone. But could a werewolf do the same? Obviously that is an unanswerable question, but if one suspends disbelief it is the only explanation that accounts for everything unless we say that much of the story is simply the product of hysteria and exaggeration. There's no suggestion as to who the werewolf might have been, but I wonder if when it was all over there was anyone simply listed as missing who was presumed killed by the beast but just never found. It would mean that a werewolf doesn't necessarily return to human form upon death if killed instantly.

[The Good Michael]

But could a werewolf do the same? Obviously that is an unanswerable question, but if one suspends disbelief it is the only explanation that accounts for everything unless we say that much of the story is simply the product of hysteria and exaggeration.

After reading this post, I'd say anything is possible with regards to hysteria and exaggeration. Those answers are the keys to many unsolved mysteries, i.e. there are no supernatural mysteries, only hysterics which create exaggeration.

Mike

[Sally]

Hi Kensei

I don't know that I'd go so far as to dismiss all and sundry 'supernatural' phenomena as solely the product of human imagination, but fear can certainly distort perception to a very great degree.

I have met several people personally who have had a 'paranormal' (for want of a better term) experience, and I have no doubt myself that whatever the explanation, hysterical fear wasn't always the answer. I do think there are things we cannot yet explain. I think the way to understand and explain is to measure scientifically where possible - its the only way forward.

In this case, my inclination is that the perpetrator was probably an animal - but I guess you never know!

[kensei]

Hi Kensei

I don't know that I'd go so far as to dismiss all and sundry 'supernatural' phenomena as solely the product of human imagination, but fear can certainly distort perception to a very great degree.

I have met several people personally who have had a 'paranormal' (for want of a better term) experience, and I have no doubt myself that whatever the explanation, hysterical fear wasn't always the answer. I do think there are things we cannot yet explain. I think the way to understand and explain is to measure scientifically where possible - its the only way forward.

In this case, my inclination is that the perpetrator was probably an animal - but I guess you never know!

I agree, it most probably was an animal. I am just playing devil's advocate here on the possibility of a paranormal explanation, as I too have encountered such situations that seem to hold up under investigation. It just seems to me that IF- for the sake of argument- all the puzzle pieces were accurately reported, it defies the odds that they would fit together so remarkably well on the side of the werewolf if that was not in fact the case. The beast seemed to prefer human prey while ignoring livestock, may have been able to walk upright and may have committed sexual assault. It survived a barrage of gunfire by professional soldiers but fell dead instantly when struck by a silver bullet fired by a simple villager. I guess I'm just as struck by how the whole thing came together as I am by the possibility of werewolves actually existing.

It's all hypothetical though. It was probably an animal.

[sdreid]

As to the theory that the killings were done by a trained animal at the direction of a human being- anyone know of any other cases in history of serial murder being carried out in that way?

Although she wouldn't be considered a traditional serial killer, I believe Irma Grese, aka The Beautiful Beast, sometimes killed concentration camp victims by putting the dogs on them.

[kensei]

Say, has anyone seen the movie "Brotherhood of the Wolf" that was based on the Gevaudan story? Hardly a straightforward fact-based portrayal, it's a wild and crazy film- part monster movie, part detective story, part erotic romance, part martial arts thriller, and actually pretty good and well made if you're among those who can detatch from the real Jack the Ripper case and sit back and enjoy "From Hell." I think the case cries out for a more accurate movie, just as does Jack the Ripper, but "Brotherhood" wasn't a terrible movie, just highly fictionalized. I saw it once several years ago. I remember a rather apalling scene of French soldiers going on a killing rampage disposing of every wolf they can find, and the actual beast turns out to be some ill-defined species of African big cat that has been horribly abused, trained to killl by a mysterious secret society, and fitted with armor and metal spikes to the point that it is a veritable Frankenstein type monster. When it finally dies you can't help but feel relief for it.