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I can't think of anything coherent to say about this at the moment, and what I want to say would probably merit a ban. I feel physically sick.
Z.
Z.
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And thus I clothe my naked villainy
With old odd ends, stol'n forth of holy writ;
And seem a saint, when most I play the devil. -
Hello Zodiac!
Well, blunt and simple:
No freedom!
All the best
Jukka"When I know all about everything, I am old. And it's a very, very long way to go!" -
Hi Zodiac
I can only repeat what I said to Tj on the burka thread re a different case : it does not surprise me.Comment
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Its shocking,absolutely shocking.
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I don't believe he will ever be released, but it is damn galling that our money is lining the pockets, yet again, of unscrupulous lawyers, which, of course, is as nothing to the pain of the victims families.
As well this week Ian Huntley apparently intends to sue for Ģ50,000 damages,(legal aid of course) because, he claims the Prison Service failed in their duty of care and he was attacked by a fellow con and his throat slashed, I shall refrain from the obvious comment, but, perhaps it would be more condusive to his wellbeing if he was kept in solitary confinement, just a thought!Comment
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Hi Apricot,Originally posted by apricot View Post
Yes, I hope that you're right. It is, of course, the victim who is executed and the families who get the life sentence, without possibility of appeal, pardon or parole.
Best wishes,
Zodiac.And thus I clothe my naked villainy
With old odd ends, stol'n forth of holy writ;
And seem a saint, when most I play the devil.Comment
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Oh but we all know how well the prisoners get treated these days, it's almost like a holiday for some of them.
There was a docco on TV just last night actually, which showed that old age pensioners, who helped build the world we know today and some of whom probably fought for us and lost friends and family in wartime, get treated worse than an average prisoner does. It is absolutely sickening and deplorable that this should be allowed to happen.
Why Sutcliffe should even be allowed to consider this option is a joke....bring back Alcatraz and the Tower of London, I say.
Cheers,
Adam.Comment
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Yes, Adam, it's all just too sick and ****ed up and I just don't have the words tonight. Maybe better if I post tomorrow.Originally posted by Adam Went View Post
Best wishes,
Zodiac.And thus I clothe my naked villainy
With old odd ends, stol'n forth of holy writ;
And seem a saint, when most I play the devil.Comment
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I think even a prisoner needs some hope; the hope of freedom. If there is nothing left, there should still be hope.
I think deep inside Peter Sutcliffe knows that he will never be released, but at least he wants to have the hope.
I think that people like Peter Sutcliffe should never be released.
I think that even prisoners should be treated as humane as possible. We - the community - can and should take away their freedom for what they have done, but we cannot and should not take away their human dignity.
I think that it is a shame that there are people who helped to make the world a better place and are now treated worse than any prisoners. I think their situation should be improved, but that cannot be achieved by worsening the situation in our jails.
I think that even those who think that prison is some kind of holiday to some would not like to be imprisoned.Comment
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... and I think that was just about the best post on this thread so far. Thanks for that, Frank!
The best,
FishermanComment
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Frank:
I think that even prisoners should be treated as humane as possible. We - the community - can and should take away their freedom for what they have done, but we cannot and should not take away their human dignity.
Depends on the crime/s that they have committed. Those who stoop to the level of taking the lives of other people for no other reason than the sheer satisfaction of it don't deserve anything resembling 'dignity'.
I think that even those who think that prison is some kind of holiday to some would not like to be imprisoned.
Free medical, free dental, free rent, free counselling, free food, free education, free electricity, phone calls and visits frequently. How are they being taught a lesson exactly? Our tax money goes into all of that BS. Meanwhile our senior citizens can barely afford to survive....there is no justification for that. None!
Other than that, pretty much agree with your points.
Cheers,
Adam.Comment
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Hope? Try tell that to the 13 women and girls that Sutcliffe brutally murdered, there is no hope for them. They can never hope be be released from the death sentence that he condemned them to. Try tell it to the 26 orphans that Sutcliffe created, whoses childhoods he totally destroyed. Try tell it to the women and girls who "survived" his attacks, their brains irepairably damaged, their broken skulls held together with metal plates. Yet still worse even than their physical scars, their mental and psychological ones. Their personalities changed almost beyond recognition, their relationships with their families and friends shattered, often beyond repair. Try tell it to the families and loved ones left behind. Theirs is a life sentence from which there is no hope of release until they die. Try tell it to Wilf MacDonald, who would never recover from the horrific murder of his daughter Jayne, just 16 years old, and who would fashion, with his own hands, the simple cross that would mark her grave from the wood of the bunk bed that she would never sleep in again. Within 2 years he would be buried next to her. Jayne used to babysit for the local kids, including both myself the McCann children. Try tell it to my friend Sonia, who never recovered from her mum's murder when she was just 7 year old and who, finally, simply could not go on any longer and took her own life, just before Christmas 2007.Originally posted by Frank View Post
Originally posted by Frank View Post
He may well want it, but he does not deserve it. The very least he deserves is to spend the rest of his life in hopeless despair.
I completely agree with you.Originally posted by Frank View Post
Dignity??? What dignity did he allow his victims? NONE! He took away every last shred of their dignity! For ****s sake I'm not even going to go into the details of what that sack of **** did to them, it makes me too ill. If you really give a damn you can look it up for yourself.Originally posted by Frank View Post
I think that it is SHAMEFUL that there are people who helped to make the world a better place and are now treated worse than any prisoners. And as for whether or not prisons are holiday camps? Well my advice is simple, Don't go around commiting the crimes in the first place and you won't have to worry about booking a suite will you?Originally posted by Frank View Post
Best wishes,
Zodiac.And thus I clothe my naked villainy
With old odd ends, stol'n forth of holy writ;
And seem a saint, when most I play the devil.Comment
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Adam, Zodiac; the way I see things, it rests upon the non-criminal part of society to deal with people like Sutcliffe. That basically means that the good guys are the ones who must handle the bad ones.
Now, my favoured wiew of the ones belonging to the good side, is a wiew of compassionate people who identify their top priority as the the duty of seeing to it that the good guys are not harmed by the bad guys. In the case of Sutcliffe, I believe that it means that he must never again walk free. But this is not primarily because society needs to get back at him for what he did, but instead because those who abide by the rules and norms of society should be safeguarded from the likes of Sutcliffe to the largest possible extent.
Sutcliffe of course does not deserve any leniency from society, nor has he earned any dignity by his actions. On the contrary - he has effectively disabled himself to be able to raise any such demands at all.
But that does not mean that we have somehow earned the right to treat him badly, no matter how strange that may sound. Our obligations lie not in revenge against wrong-doers, but in safeguarding the good ones. Consequentially, however "fair" it may sound to hand over the shaping of justice to the relatives and friends of Sutcliffes victims, and let them decide his fate, it would be a disastrous route to choose. It would corrupt any true sense of justice and it would bring us back to the an-eye-for-an-eye-age that most of us recognize was never a wise way of imposing law and order. The obvious result in Sutcliffes case, if we were to live by such a rule, would be to simply lynch him. And theoretically speaking, if we had a chance to undo what Sutcliffe did by lynching him, then that would probably be the "moral" thing to do. But no such chance is at hand, is it?
The likes of Sutcliffe are dangerous to society for a number of reasons. They kill other people, and that is a sad thing. They leave, just like you point out, a good deal more people orphaned, traumatized and physically and mentally crippled, and that is perhaps, in a sense, even worse.
But letīs not forget that they also put us all, to a larger or smaller extent, at risk to corrupt ourselves morally. And once we give in to the temptation they impose upon us - and that involves anything from denying them any sort of dignity and hope to dragging them out into the street and ripping them apart - we have taken a step along the road that we blame the likes of Peter Sutcliffe for having walked to the full - the road of intentionally harming other people. Letīs show ourselves some respect and avoid that.
The best,
FishermanLast edited by Fisherman; 08-06-2010, 09:54 AM.Comment
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Hello you all!
Well;
I think, that Sutcliffe has a right to make appeals as many as he likes.
But;
1. The victims cannot be brought back to life.
2. Like Zodiac said, the scars of the survivors cannot be repaired.
3. I don't know, if there is a study about released serial killers (if any of them has ever been released) doing it again or not. But I don't want to see any ginnypigs about the matter.
All the best
Jukka"When I know all about everything, I am old. And it's a very, very long way to go!"Comment
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I'm with Frank on this one.
Mikehuh?Comment
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