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**DarkPassenger** · 11-25-2009, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Triplesod View Post

P.s. In a criminology class, we tried to find out which "developed" country had the highest numbers of serial killers. It turned out that per capita it was the UK

Can I ask what your sample of serial killers was? How many did you include and which ones?

**Triplesod** · 12-01-2009, 05:57 AM

Hiya DP.

I will have to check out my old stuff, so it will take a couple of days.

what I can tell you is we were pretty much using the SOCCA and FBI suggestions, which I think are the same. 3+ murders with a cooling off period, etc.

What you may be interested to know is, I was going to message you to ask for your thoughts, advice and if you could maybe direct me to some less known SK's (PS I really hope you manage to get your work out! Good luck with it, mate!).

Have you got any thoughts on why the UK and USA seem to have so many, relative to similar developed countries (at least countries where we can be sure a SK would be recognised by the police and chased/tried as such)?

I will get back to you as soon as poss, DP. Thanks for the reply!

**anna** · 12-01-2009, 12:03 PM

Hi Triplesod,
The case in Hastings,East Sussex you are referring to,is that of Sion Jenkins and the murder of Billie Joe..I think it was around June 1998.
He was the deputy head of a local school and was accused of murdering Billie Joe with an 18inch metal tent spike on the patio of his home.
It was all about DNA...I remember it well.
I have worked in that area on many occassions over the years,and my aunt lived in Hastings during the early/mid 70's..so I am very familiar with the houses in the road,and the road itself,which is the main road which leads into Hastings...so I took an interest in the case.
It hinged on the events of the day..and blood spatterings on his clothes,which were supposed to be consistent with Jenkins having been close to Billy Joe at the time of her murder.
There were a series of events which suppposedly led up to him "snapping"..
If I remember correctly...
At 12pm..he drove to the local Safeway..which is a short distance from his home. His wife had fergotten her cheque book and was shopping there..he'd brought the wrong book,so had to do the round trip again.
Then at 3pm he had to take a friend of his daughters home,and return home,leaving his two daughters(of 10 & 12 years) outside the family home in the car..while he nips in and kills Billie Joe who is painting doors on the patio.
Then he returns outside and swops cars..putting the two girls into his MG and goes to the local DIY store to buy white spirit.
One of his daughters finds Billie Joe when they get home..I think he lifts her up,or something..which is where his defence said he got the blood spatterings from.
I never believed Jenkins murdered Billie Joe.

**DarkPassenger** · 12-01-2009, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by Triplesod View Post

Hiya DP.

I will have to check out my old stuff, so it will take a couple of days.

what I can tell you is we were pretty much using the SOCCA and FBI suggestions, which I think are the same. 3+ murders with a cooling off period, etc.

That's a good idea but I have to make the point that when considering serial killers, the "quantitative" definition, on number of victims alone, can be overly-inclusive of killers who do not fit the appropriate profile of a serial killer, while excluding those who do, but have not killed enough victims.

An example; Archibald Hall murdered five people, with each murder seperated by lengths of time comparable to "cooling-off periods." However, despite the fact that he is included as a serial killer in many serious publications, I would never include him myself as his murders are simply not those of a serial killer.
He murdered his first victim to protect his position as a butler at an upper-class residence, he killed his second victim by accident while staking the place out for a robbery, he killed his thid victim out of necessity (who was the husband of the previous victim), and the last two were out of paranoia. He did not, for example, pick up and strangle runaways and prostitutes for his own gratification, like Alun Kyte did.

Alun Kyte is a different matter. Convicted in 2002 of two murders, Alun Kyte is not a serial killer by the standard quantitative definition. However, his crimes cry out for inclusion in any sensible consideration of serial killing in the UK. He confessed, in fact, to 12 murders, but was only convicted of two. But even without his confessions, his crimes are vastly different to Hall's, but by the standard definition of serial murder, do not count. Hence, the pitfalls of the standard definition of serial killing.

What you may be interested to know is, I was going to message you to ask for your thoughts, advice and if you could maybe direct me to some less known SK's (PS I really hope you manage to get your work out! Good luck with it, mate!).

Steven Grieveson strangled three teenage boys to death in 1993, and was known as the "Sunderland Strangler."

Trevor Hardy was known as the Beast of Manchester and was convicted of three sex murders in the 1970s

Peter Dinsdale, AKA Bruce Lee, killed 26 people in arson attacks during, I think, the 1980s. He spoke of an irresistable urge to light fatal fires

Steven Akinmurele was known as the Blackpool Strangler and killed three elderly people (and was suspected of more on the Isle of Man). He killed himself in custody.

Mark Martin and two others killed three prostitutes in the mid-2000s to become Nottingham's first serial killers

Derek Brown abducted and killed two prostitutes in Whitechapel (yes, that Whitechapel) in 2007.

Joseph Kappen was known as the "Saturday Night Strangler" for raping and strangling three girls in the 1970s.

Paul Bostock killed two women in sexual, and ritual murders in the 1980s.

Philip Smith killed three victims in four days in 2000

There's a few more, the details of which I need to verify, which may interest you.

Have you got any thoughts on why the UK and USA seem to have so many, relative to similar developed countries (at least countries where we can be sure a SK would be recognised by the police and chased/tried as such)?

I will get back to you as soon as poss, DP. Thanks for the reply!

I think it's our individualized, and highly developed consumer culture. A better standard of living breeds forms of deviance which serves the individual in a violent and self-gratifying way I think. It's way too complex an issue to put down in words here. I recommend "Dark Truths: Modern Theories of Serial Murder" as a useful place to look at competing theories on the matter.

**nugnug** · 03-31-2010, 07:00 PM

Levi Bellfield

Levi Bellfield would certanly fit the bill for the hastings murder much more than soin jenkins its his mo.

is there anything linking to susex at around the time of the murders

**Mycroft** · 03-31-2010, 07:34 PM

P.s. In a criminology class, we tried to find out which "developed" country had the highest numbers of serial killers. It turned out that per capita it was the UK, closely followed by the USA. Why do you think that is? It is an Anglo Saxon thing? Is it a result of being a World power?

Maybe it's because police methods in the US & UK are more advanced and these crimes are better detected? Maybe it's a symptom of the stresses and strains of modern living and in the UK, of overcrowding?Maybe it is that the warrior nature of the Anglo-Saxon when constrained ,becomes twisted? I'm sure though, that the amount of serial killers in the undeveloped world , must be on a par, if not greater than that of the developed world.I would imagine that the streets of places like Rio and Nairobi are the new Whitechapels, where unknown , modern day JtR( or Juan t R), get away with murder.

**nugnug** · 04-01-2010, 12:33 AM

Levi Bellfield

I also believe Levi Bellfield killed lyn and megan russel

**Stephen Thomas** · 04-01-2010, 01:02 AM

Whoever heard of a white man called Levi?

Maybe his parents were a little bit out of touch

**nugnug** · 05-22-2010, 10:29 PM

Theres an intresting theory about belfield here.

Michael Stone | Levi Bellfield and the Chillenden Murders

http://www.michaelstone.co.uk/

Michael Stone was convicted of murder solely based on an alleged confession to a fellow convict.

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