Crippen to be Exhumed?

[ghoulstonstreet]

USA Doc Crippen

Hi. I believe you can see this on your computer. We have a show in the US called Secrets of the Dead. It has many episodes. The one regarding the modern DNA work on Crippen's case can be reached by typing in https://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/epi...-in-error/198/
(the preview of my post cut off some of the url. It should read ...secrets/episodes/executed-in-error/198/)

I found it compelling yet it also opens more holes, more mysteries. I believe the UK authorities are reluctant to retest because they may find that Crippen was indeed executed in error or prematurely. Does everyone remember that in the 50s the wrong man was executed in Britain for Christie's crimes? I don't believe the authorities would want another such case coming to light.The essence of the question in Crippen's case is, why would he expend so much energy getting rid of all the bones and the head and then leave ONLY the incriminating bit of flesh with the "scar" on it, plus some incriminating clothing, in the basement? This has always disturbed me but now finally some folks in authority are calling it into question. Watch the show if you can get it to come on via the computer. Are you aware of why there is this controversy involving the MSU scientists and this attorney for the descendant, James Crippen? I really would like to understand what that's all about. Thanks

[ghoulstonstreet]

Please expand on this statement that Stephano is the lawyer with whom MSU wanted no relationship. I would like to know what the beef was there. From the surface it looks like these two and crippen's descendant should have been allies, yet... Thanks. Have you seen the Secrets of the Dead episode on Crippen's DNA results? If so what do you make of it? Thanks

[jmenges]

Here is a portion of my email correspondence with MSU's Dr. David Foran from October of 2007:

Q- I obtained from the website of the Italian law firm
www.studiolegaleinternazionale.com a chart that details Cora Crippen's
family tree. The only problem is that the graphic is wholly illegible
due to its size and the names and dates of the relatives are not able
to be read. Could you possibly provide me with a decent quality chart
of her family tree so I have a better understanding of Cora's siblings
and half-siblings and their children?

A- I have specifically and very plainly requested that any mention or inclusion of my name, my laboratory, or my University (Michigan State University, and their misspelling of it) be wholly omitted from that document, in that I in no way support or condone their efforts. I have made this very plain to Mr. Trestrail, and he has claimed to have made it plain to Mr. Di Stefano. I believe Ms. Wills also requested that her name be removed, but she can address that.
Certainly I did not in any manner give permission to be associated with Mr. Di Stefano, his website, or his scheme. The number of errors in that application, from the misnamed university to Mr. Trestrail's title, show what sloppy work Mr. Di Stefano conducts. Once again, neither I, my laboratory, my Departments, nor Michigan State University in any way support Mr. Di Stefano's efforts, and again request that mention of any of these, as well as any 'team' support for his efforts, through which I and the above are directly or indirectly implied, be fully removed from this and all further documents, releases, or statements.

Notice the non-answer to my question. Any mentioning of details of the family genealogy is bound to bring up more questions, as myself and researcher Debra Ariff have discovered.

But nevertheless...

Di Stefano is now (or was) representing the Crippen descendant in the pardon and body reburial effort stemming from the claims of MSU. In the above email Dr. Foran says quite clearly that they are opposed to this effort.

Fast forward 2 years and the parties are sharing screen time in a sensational documentary. So much for avoiding any appearance of support for his efforts...directly or indirectly implied.

JM

[ghoulstonstreet]

What about Justice?

Here is a portion of my email correspondence with MSU's Dr. David Foran from October of 2007:

Q- I obtained from the website of the Italian law firm
www.studiolegaleinternazionale.com a chart that details Cora Crippen's
family tree. The only problem is that the graphic is wholly illegible
due to its size and the names and dates of the relatives are not able
to be read. Could you possibly provide me with a decent quality chart
of her family tree so I have a better understanding of Cora's siblings
and half-siblings and their children?

A- I have specifically and very plainly requested that any mention or inclusion of my name, my laboratory, or my University (Michigan State University, and their misspelling of it) be wholly omitted from that document, in that I in no way support or condone their efforts. I have made this very plain to Mr. Trestrail, and he has claimed to have made it plain to Mr. Di Stefano. I believe Ms. Wills also requested that her name be removed, but she can address that.
Certainly I did not in any manner give permission to be associated with Mr. Di Stefano, his website, or his scheme. The number of errors in that application, from the misnamed university to Mr. Trestrail's title, show what sloppy work Mr. Di Stefano conducts. Once again, neither I, my laboratory, my Departments, nor Michigan State University in any way support Mr. Di Stefano's efforts, and again request that mention of any of these, as well as any 'team' support for his efforts, through which I and the above are directly or indirectly implied, be fully removed from this and all further documents, releases, or statements.

Notice the non-answer to my question. Any mentioning of details of the family genealogy is bound to bring up more questions, as myself and researcher Debra Ariff have discovered.

But nevertheless...

Di Stefano is now (or was) representing the Crippen descendant in the pardon and body reburial effort stemming from the claims of MSU. In the above email Dr. Foran says quite clearly that they are opposed to this effort.

Fast forward 2 years and the parties are sharing screen time in a sensational documentary. So much for avoiding any appearance of support for his efforts...directly or indirectly implied.

JM

I happen to be something of a stickler for the truth. I believe that if there is reasonable concern regarding Crippen's guilt all the facts should be explored. I resent these various folks playing fast and loose. You've seen the Secrets show? It's well done, it states in no unclear terms that the tests on the slide conducted and retested by Dr. Foran, who is interviewed at length, is of a MALE. States in NO UNCLEAR terms, and the show clearly explains why the body parts might have been planted (Dew messed up with the Ripper but could redeem himself with Crippen), and why it is so illogical for a man to BURN bones in a lengthy process but bury one incriminating piece of flesh bearing a "scar" that could be asumed to be Cora's, plus an incriminating pajama top. There is a whole lot here that doesn't wash and I think it's wrong to let this man (crippen) continue to go down in history vilified unless there is reasonable evidence to confirm the conviction. Why is Dr. Foran backpedalling, or needing to address a non-subject? The legalities are not his field. What trouble can he get into, or can Wills get into by reiterating wnat's already on tape? I don't get these people.
Please fill me in on the other researcher you mentioned, Miss Arif. What steps are you and she taking, if any right now? I was distressed to see that the Crown did not think Mr. James Crippen WORTHY of being an interested party. That's because they don't want to be found guilty of hanging the wrong guy and also they don't want to lose their tourist attraction. Shame.

[ghoulstonstreet]

Stephano

Forgot to ask- So the deal is that Mr. Crippen (Patrick) had unfortunatley hired this Italian attorney(?) Stephano and he's a bit of a sloppy operator?

[jmenges]

There used to be a thread called Crippen Innocent? -or something like that- created after the initial claims of MSU were revealed in a press release. I believe that was pre-crash and all is lost.

A follow up discussion thread stemming from the TV documentary can be found here:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=939

JM

[Archaic]

Okay, I know I'm asking for trouble here, but I have always suspected that Crippen was railroaded by persons unknown. One question I've always had is why didn't he simply get a divorce? He was the breadwinner - he could have re-established himself again with Ethel. He was humiliated and used by Cora unceasingly. What do the old fashioned words mean "she won't give me a divorce"? I thought Henry VIII fixed all that.

Hi, Ghoulston. Unfortunately, some men do choose murder over divorce.

There are many reasons why Crippen might have done so (as I believe he did): If he divorced Cora, she would get a large monetary settlement from him. She would also take her furs, jewels etc- all of which Crippen enjoyed lavishing upon his young girlfriend as soon as Cora was dead.

But the other aspect you have to bear in mind is that a man who would rather secretly murder his wife than divorce her has something seriously wrong inside his own psyche.
He's jealous, angry, spiteful, etc., and not thinking clearly...That's why most people like him are caught.
They make a mistake somewhere. Usually it's because the spouse is reported missing and the body is eventually found, as happened in Crippen's case.

There are cases I know of here in the states where one man killed 2 or 3 wives in a row, or killed a girlfriend who wanted to break up with him and then years later his wife when she wanted a divorce. Maybe it's the "I-Me-Mine" concept run amuck.

This kind of murder isn't going to make perfect sense to an outsider, because murdering one's spouse isn't a sensible option, and the chances of getting away with it are slim. The "reasons" for the murder lie within the diseased psyche of the killer.

Best regards, Archaic

[belinda]

Hi. I believe you can see this on your computer. We have a show in the US called Secrets of the Dead. It has many episodes. The one regarding the modern DNA work on Crippen's case can be reached by typing in https://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/epi...-in-error/198/
(the preview of my post cut off some of the url. It should read ...secrets/episodes/executed-in-error/198/)

I found it compelling yet it also opens more holes, more mysteries. I believe the UK authorities are reluctant to retest because they may find that Crippen was indeed executed in error or prematurely. Does everyone remember that in the 50s the wrong man was executed in Britain for Christie's crimes? I don't believe the authorities would want another such case coming to light.The essence of the question in Crippen's case is, why would he expend so much energy getting rid of all the bones and the head and then leave ONLY the incriminating bit of flesh with the "scar" on it, plus some incriminating clothing, in the basement? This has always disturbed me but now finally some folks in authority are calling it into question. Watch the show if you can get it to come on via the computer. Are you aware of why there is this controversy involving the MSU scientists and this attorney for the descendant, James Crippen? I really would like to understand what that's all about. Thanks

This is all I can find out about the programme it was made in 2004 I have it on tape it would be interesting to know what the people involed think of the recent developments

http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/797507

The authorities hate having to admit they're wrong as they had to with Timothy Evans

And with one as notorious as this

[ghoulstonstreet]

Thanks for the input. I, too, live in the States and of course we're ground zero for the wife and girlfriend killers and I've read plenty of true crime books about them. My gut feeling on Crippen tho is that not all was on the up an up. Also, he didn't seem the type. Just didn't wash that he could be so kind, warm and affectionate and then... On the other hand, I admit that his previous behavior regarding the bogus medicines shows a disconnect regarding other people's suffering. That is, somebody who sells fakes or performs phony medical treatment is showing that he is a sociopath. He's not caring about other people, repeatedly. This type sometimes becomes a killer.

[ghoulstonstreet]

Calling All Crippen Film Copies

This is all I can find out about the programme it was made in 2004 I have it on tape it would be interesting to know what the people involed think of the recent developments

http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/797507

The authorities hate having to admit they're wrong as they had to with Timothy Evans

And with one as notorious as this

Thank you. I gues this means we can't watch it. If somebody out there has a copy of this British-based doc on Crippen would you please put it on YouTube and let us know so we can watch it? Thanks

[Archaic]

Hi, guys.

I think I posted a link to the 'Secrets of the Dead: Executed In Error' documentary on the other thread, but here it is just in case:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/episodes/executed-in-error/198/

The documentary page has links to other interviews, etc.

My personal opinion is that there were some noticeable jumps in "logic" made, but everybody's free to watch it and make up their own mind.

As Jon said, there is another Crippen thread and it has some really terrific info on it. This certainly is a fascinating case.

Best regards, Archaic

[Archaic]

'Grim Murder's Episode On Crippen

Here's an episode of 'Grim Murders From History' that looks at the case of Dr. Crippen. It's available on YouTube; I think it's Episode #15.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ARNHN8wWY

This is an older series but it's pretty good; covers many different murders as well as the development of Forensic techniques.

Cheers, Archaic

[looby64]

Thanks for the secrets of the dead link Archaic, found it very interesting, has anything come of this programme do you know? Will have a look at the other one you suggested. Thanks again.

[ghoulstonstreet]

Irritated with the Crown

Thanks for the secrets of the dead link Archaic, found it very interesting, has anything come of this programme do you know? Will have a look at the other one you suggested. Thanks again.

Hi, The Crippen book entitled "Dinner with the Crippens" or "Supper with the Crippens" is a very good read. I just finished it. In fact I'll sell it to you or anyone else interested because I'm done with it. Did you know that Britain refused exhumation of Crippen's body because they said his great nephew from Michigan had "no sufficient interest" in the case? I'd like to know how a whole country of strangers has more of an interest than a blood relative. I am irritated at that and it's also so transparent to me that the UK doesn't want to give up a tourist attraction nor does it want the legal findings of 1910 questioned. Shame on them even if Crippen was guilty. The forensic findings do put the case into a new light. Also, I think I read that there's a concrete car park on top of the old criminal cemetery where Crippen is buried. Guess they don't want to spend the money to break up all that nice concrete.

[nugnug]

torso

if crippen wasnt guilty can anyone explian what a human torso was doing in his coal cellar