Crippen to be Exhumed?

[Archaic]

Thanks, Jon. It's a weird case.

Best regards, Archaic

[larue]

weird indeed... [ and, i reckon, a miscarriage of justice ]

i have never read up on this case, but there are a few tv documentaries floating around that are quite interesting, and lead me to aks these questions:

1. the crippen's financial position was somewhat shaky [ nothing changes in britain ], so much so, that they were obliged to take in lodgers. that being the case, where did the 600 pounds come from, that cora crippen tried to withdraw from their savings account, shortly before her disappearance??? [ in 1910ish, that was a small fortune ]

2. i assume that crippen was of reasonable intelligence? after all he had gained medical qualifications. maybe not enough to allow him to practice as a gp in britain, but none the less he was qualified. if he did indeed murder his wife, why was he dumb enough to bury part of her in the cellar for dew to conveniently find, instead of dissapearing these remains along with the bones etc etc???

can anyone recommend decent reading material on this case??

[halomanuk]

The biography of Walter Dew 'The Man Who Caught Crippen' is IMO the best subject,which also covers Dew's time as a Constable at the time of JtR in 1888.
A very good book.

[jmenges]

Supper with the Crippens by David James Smith and The Trial of Hawley Harvey Crippen: Notable Trials Series. Filson Young, editor, are the two I would recommend.

JM

[larue]

thank you jmenges and halomanuk for those recomendations. i think i'll try to obtain copies...

[Mitch Rowe]

weird indeed... [ and, i reckon, a miscarriage of justice ]


2. i assume that crippen was of reasonable intelligence? after all he had gained medical qualifications. maybe not enough to allow him to practice as a gp in britain, but none the less he was qualified. if he did indeed murder his wife, why was he dumb enough to bury part of her in the cellar for dew to conveniently find, instead of dissapearing these remains along with the bones etc etc???

I thought that it was determined that lime was used and not quicklime. The lime actually preserved the remains instead of dissolving them.

[larue]

the debate goes on

hi all

there is a program coming up on the crime and investigation channel. just thought i'd whet your appetites...

Was Dr Crippen Innocent?
Thursday 27 Aug 8.00PM

http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/tv_programme/2104/Was_Dr_Crippen_Innocent_.htm/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email%2B&utm_campaign=Crime%2B

Latest DNA tests show body parts in Crippen’s cellar belonged to a man, not a woman.

Experts in DNA analysis have uncovered evidence that demands a radical review of a landmark legal case. Serious doubts have been cast over the 1910 conviction of Dr Crippen for the alleged murder of his wife, Cora. Tests last year concluded that the human remains found in Crippen’s basement could not have belonged to Cora.

One of the most famous media driven trials of the last century was that of Dr Hawley Harvey Crippen, convicted of the brutal murder of his wife, following the discovery of putrefying human flesh and internal organs under the floor in their North London home. After only 27 minutes deliberation, an Old Bailey jury returned with a verdict of guilty, and sent Crippen to the gallows.

Historic feat of detection
At the time, the story was a media sensation having all the elements of a melodrama. Here was an apparently mild mannered American doctor, who had murdered his showgirl wife then fled across the Atlantic with his young lover, only to be spotted by the ship’s captain. He was subsequently captured in Canada, thanks to the new miracle invention of wireless telegraph.

Up till now this case was seen as one of the greatest feats of detection by London’s Scotland Yard. Even as recently as 2002, the Police Review magazine placed the Crippen case at the top of a list of great police firsts.

But why would a poisoner go to the trouble of chopping up a body?
Michigan based forensic toxicologist John Trestrail has had nagging doubts about this case for over 30 years. To him, certain details simply don’t add up. The prosecution had claimed at the trial that the human remains were riddled with poison, but Trestrail, who heads up the Regional Poison Center in Grand Rapids, has always found this extremely odd: ‘This is the only case I know of where the victim was dismembered. A poisoner attempts to get a natural death certificate signed and walk away from the crime. Dismemberment does not fit the psychology of a poisoner.’

Whoever had killed the victim had gone to the trouble of removing 95% of the body – then disposed of it in secret - leaving only about enough to fill a shoe-box.

DNA from Cora’s relatives was tested against remains from cellar when Trestrail launched a major re-examination of the evidence. He began by joining forces with Genealogist, Beth Wills, who after an exhaustive seven year search, managed to track down the descendants of Cora Crippen, now living in California. He then discovered that a sample of the skin tissue presented at the 1910 trial still existed, and was kept in the Archives of the Royal London Hospital.

The hospital was prepared to release one of these laboratory slides to be sent on to Dr David Foran, head of Forensic Science at Michigan State University. Foran regularly testifies in criminal cases and can be fairly described as one of the foremost experts in this field. He set about comparing these historic remains with the mitochondrial DNA samples taken from Cora’s surviving relatives. Only by comparing the two could the question of identity be resolved. They didn’t match.

Trestrail could draw only one conclusion: the victim was not Cora Crippen.

Was it a botched abortion?
Trestrail then used his own forensic training to come up with a credible scenario for what may have happened. He thought that Crippen was perhaps a part-time abortionist, and the remains are those of a patient who died. This would fit with the poison traces which the prosecution said they had detected in the tissue. Hyoscine is a drug then commonly administered in obstetrics.

It was a man
However this year David Foran took it upon himself to conduct a further test on the skin tissue, this time to establish the sex of the victim. He concluded that not only were they not the remains of Cora Crippen but that they were undoubtedly male.

The evidence that hanged Crippen
These results are a bombshell. They show that the evidence which sent Crippen to the gallows must have been mistaken. Crippen was convicted when prosecution ‘proved’ that Cora was linked to the remains found in the cellar. The prosecution’s star witness, forensic pathologist Bernard Spilsbury, identified what he said was an operation scar from a piece of skin from the lower abdomen. Cora Crippen was known to have had an operation to remove her ovaries, some 15 years earlier. This was the killer testimony which put a noose around Crippen’s neck, despite the fact that the Defence argued the scar was nothing more than a fold in the skin. Even if a scar did exist it is now clear that it belonged to a man.

Judge would have acquitted Crippen
Ironically the trial Judge, Lord Alverstone, had declared in his summing up to the jury, ‘Gentlemen I think I may pass for the purpose of your consideration from the question of whether it was a man or a woman. Of course if it was a man, again the defendant is entitled to walk out of that dock.’

A posthumous pardon?
The new revelation will have a profound impact on Dr Crippen’s family, led by his last remaining male descendent, John Patrick Crippen. He has already called for a review of the case, a pardon, and the return of Dr Crippen’s body from Pentonville prison in London to the Crippen family burial ground in Michigan. Now that there is further proof that the conviction wasn’t merely unsafe, but completely ill-founded, he will renew his appeal to the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

Even London’s Madame Tussauds are considering moving the famous wax effigy of Dr. Crippen upstairs out of the Chamber of Horrors, whilst he is ‘given bail’.

The new revelations now raise many more questions. What happened to Cora? Did she really disappear to America as Crippen had always claimed? Genealogist Beth Wills thinks it’s a possibility. When searching the 1920 census records she came across a reference to a Belle Rose, living as a singer in New York with Cora’s step-sister. Cora Crippen’s stage name was Belle Elmore. Wills wants to know whether or not Belle Rose and Elmore were one and the same person.

As for John Trestrail, he now wants to know the identity of the man in the cellar and more importantly who put him there. For him this is not case closed, it’s just the beginning.

[belinda]

This is interesting.

I always thought he was covering for Ethel but now............

Awaiting further developements

[c.d.]

If it is a male body, I wonder if it could be one of his wife's lovers.

c.d.

[miss marple]

bandwagon

The trouble with jumping on bandwagons is that one is liable to fall off.
Most experienced Casebookers like to check things out first, which was done when this Trestail stuff first hit the media.
Firstly 'remains' No cellar remains have been examined, only a slide of skin kept by Sir Bernard Spilsbury from the cellar. You cannot tell the sex from the slide or if it has been contaminated.

Secondly Cora's genealogy is very iffy indeed. She lied about her background, and whether relatives are directly related to her is open to question.

Cora had her womb removed and did have a large livid scar on her abdomen.

Thirdly Beth Wills is,as casebook proved by downloading the census entry she found ,is either an incompetant researcher or she misled about the entry. Belle Rose was a jewish immigrant[ much younger than catholic Elmore ] she was a hat designer working for a millinary. Wills extracted the word 'singer' from designer.This was a period when thousands of immigrants were entering New York
.Fourthly After supper with the Martinettis at Hilldrop crescent on the night of jan 31st 1910. Cora was never seen or heard of again. Her expensive wardrobe and valuable jewellary[ Cora loved her bling] were desposed of by Crippen, some sold, some given to Ethel.
Hyoscine was found in the remains by Dr William Henry Willcox, lecturer in forensic medicine. The tests were comprehensive/The doctors were not idiots and unlike Tresail had examined the remains
Crippen purchased hyoscine in january. He may also have panicked and shot her,shots were heard, as hyoscene is a narcotic and can cause delirium.
Remains of her hair and a hindes curler were found with the remains. He may have dumped her head overboard when he and Ethel fled.
Every move, every action of Crippen's after the murder pointed to his guillt [find out for yourselves] till his capture on the Montrose.
The question is how much did Ethel know?.
Cora had a very bad press, she was loud, domineering, sensual and unenglish.
Crippen seemed harmless, a quiet put apon man, who was genuinly devoted to Ethel, they adored each other. He protected her from any involvement.
I believe Trestail to be a publicity hound.He probably thinks it it is a major cue to undermine this historic case, and make out the police and doctors involved were either corrupt or stupid, when in fact it is one of the best documented cases ever and the right man was indited.
Miss Marple

[Debra A]

Excellent post Miss Marple.

[Triplesod]

"Un-English", eh?

Well, she certainly wasn't English but there is nothing about her character that suggests she behaved in a way alien to many English women of the same class and background.

I'm sorry but this "un-English" thing bugs me. It may have been something that the upper classes considered but for the every-wo/man it didn't apply.
Did the victims of the Ripper behave in an "Un-English" way?

[Carol]

"Un-English", eh?

Well, she certainly wasn't English but there is nothing about her character that suggests she behaved in a way alien to many English women of the same class and background.

I'm sorry but this "un-English" thing bugs me. It may have been something that the upper classes considered but for the every-wo/man it didn't apply.
Did the victims of the Ripper behave in an "Un-English" way?

Hi Triplesod!
I have lived abroad for more years than I care to remember (namely in Sweden) and I still get surprised at the wider world's idea of what an English person is like. We are, apparently, unable and unwilling to show what we really feel, unwilling to communicate with others, prepare the most unedible food, have a terrible taste in home decorating and are sexually repressed. Just for starters!
Oh yes, and we are very overcrowded populationwise - this last always said as if it was my own fault!
Carol

[c.d.]

Hi Carol,

If the English are sexually repressed, where does the overpopulation come from?

c.d.

[miss marple]

unenglish

What you all getting into a state over unenglish for? I used the word so I will explain the context.
Cora, considering she was the victim, has had a very bad sexist press. She was regarded as loud, domineering, and a show off. Her attempts to find fame on the music hall was treated as a joke. She was brash.[ Brashness the was seen as an american quality at a time when the english still thought of themselves as superior to those from other countries]
I suppose you will all winge about the word brash now,[ lets give up all adjectives apart from good and bad ]
Brash was regarded as an unenglish quality particually among lower middle class wives of the time who were expected to be quiet,obedient and unobtrusive, not to push yourself into the limelight or make a public show of yourself.
Crippen was regarded as a poor henpecked husband, dominated by his wife. He was called the 'nice murderer' The love story of Crippen and Ethel intrigued the public.
Neither of these perceptions is exactly true.
Crippen did protect Ethel from involvment in the case. He had a devious and secretive mind.He was very adept at weaving the tissues of lies after the murder, and presenting a harmless persona
Cora's socialising made her a lot of friends, who were suspicious of Crippen after her disappearence
Miss Marple