Case of most interest besides JtR poll

[sdreid]

The Toledo Clubber has interested me but all the accounts I can find are rather nebulous in my view.

[Mayerling]

I've never heard of Georgina Moore nor the Ham Vanishings..

The Georgina Moore case is from England in the early 1880s, and (despite an investigation) Ms Moore was acquitted at her trial. The Ham Vanishings began in the 1870s, and lasted until the 1890s. There is an account in "Strange Disappearances" by Elliott O'Donnell. Unfortunately I have frequently found that people referring to the Ham Vanishings are using O'Donnell not only as a source, but copying his very words (without ancknowledging this). Micharel Harrison did a word for word transcription in his book "In the Footsteps of Sherlock Holmes" about the West Ham Disappearances (check it out to see). Harrison also wrote the first book that suggested James Kenneth Stephen, tutor to the Duke of Clarence, was Jack the Ripper - I'm just mentioning that in passing.

On the old Casebook website I wrote some research on two of the West Ham Disappearances (that of Charles Wagner in 1882 - his dead body was found under a cliff at Margate), and Amelia Jeffs (who was found dead in a cupboard in a newly built house). In looking into the cases, it looked like the police came quite close to solving both, but no cigar (despite coroner's juries in the Jeff's case, and a trial in the Wagner case). Of course, O'Donnell (who enjoyed spreading a "mysterious" world effect everywhere) never mentioned these things.

Jeff

[sdreid]

I've never heard of Georgina Moore nor the Ham Vanishings.

The cases certainly have some commonalities.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

I voted Zodiac simply because of the same equation of JtR: police jurisdictions, police collaboration problems, press, letters to the press, panic in the population, never caught.

[sdreid]

I voted Zodiac simply because of the same equation of JtR: police jurisdictions, police collaboration problems, press, letters to the press, panic in the population, never caught.

Yes, although there were letters in at least three of the other cases listed, Zodiac is the only one where they were as big a deal as with JtR.

[GUT]

Yes, although there were letters in at least three of the other cases listed, Zodiac is the only one where they were as big a deal as with JtR.

But weren't they only such a big deal because they were in code and it was believed that if cracked it would reveal the killer's identity?

[Rosella]

As a poster on the Lizzie Borden Forum I would certainly put Lizzie up there. As an Australian I'd love to know the solution to the Gatton mystery, the Wanda beach murders and to the Beaumont kids disappearance. Lots of British unsolved mysteries, but for many reasons the half-forgotten Hinterkaifeck murders in 1920's Germany deserve a book exploring the case,in English.

[sdreid]

But weren't they only such a big deal because they were in code and it was believed that if cracked it would reveal the killer's identity?

Yes, the cipher definitely added to the intrigue.

[sdreid]

Lots of British unsolved mysteries, but for many reasons the half-forgotten Hinterkaifeck murders in 1920's Germany deserve a book exploring the case,in English.

It is a big case but, since we tend to be Anglo-centric, it isn't as well known to many.

[gallicrow]

... the half-forgotten Hinterkaifeck murders in 1920's Germany deserve a book exploring the case,in English.

I read about this a few years back (just a website, not a book). The neighbour, Lorenz Schlittenbauer, seemed like a very strong suspect indeed. Are there are any other plausible suspects?

[Rosella]

Unfortunately I don't speak German so I haven't been able to read any books about it in that language, but a long time ago I visited Germany and was told about the murders by someone whose parents came from a nearby village. They would speak about it when she and her siblings were growing up. I was so fascinated I wrote everything down that she told me.

Some things I was told turned out to be inaccurate. Her parents seemed to have suspected the neighbour too, but there were rumours around the area that the daughter Viktoria's supposedly dead husband had come back to the farm and was to blame.

In its own way this family's murders are as intriguing as the Lizzie Borden case, and as botched by the police!. But you are right, most of the information on Hinterkaifeck is on two English language websites.

[sdreid]

Unfortunately I don't speak German so I haven't been able to read any books about it in that language, but a long time ago I visited Germany and was told about the murders by someone whose parents came from a nearby village. They would speak about it when she and her siblings were growing up.

That must have been scary-thinking that this maniac was still out there.

[Rosella]

Yes, in quite an isolated farming area with few police, it must have been. However it was generally believed that the main target was the daughter Viktoria.
It's kept its nightmarish quality for me over the years due to each victim being seemingly lured into the barn, perhaps in search of the missing members of their family. The remaining two, the toddler and the maid, were murdered in the house, leaving no one alive on that farm but the murderer.

[sdreid]

Yes, although there were letters in at least three of the other cases listed, Zodiac is the only one where they were as big a deal as with JtR.

And, unlike JtR, there are few doubts that the killer sent the letters.

[sdreid]

JtR and Zodiac are the only two I can think of who included grizzly artifacts in their mailings.