Dennis Rader, Why did he quit?

[diana]

In debating whether JTR could have chosen to quit Dennis Rader inevitably comes up.

I began asking myself what caused BTK to stop. Then it dawned on me. The Supreme Court struck down Kansas' death penalty law in 1972. BTK started his career in 1974.

Kansas rewrote and reinstituted the death penalty (steering around the Supreme Court's objections) in 1994. BTK's last killing was in 1991.

So much for the theory that the death penalty does not deter crime.

Did the British government or the local London government do anything that would have struck fear into the heart of JtR?

[Limehouse]

Diana,

Yours is a very interesting point and one worthy of investigation. However, I think certain individuals who are driven to kill would not be deterred by the death penalty. One or two, would even crave it (Peter Kurten?). If you look at various well-known cases, you will find that in that state or country, the death penalty was in place but did not stop the killers. These cases include Haig, Christie, Brady and Hindley (they missed being hung by a whisper) and the Manson gang (who were actually sentenced to death). I am sure other people could add a considerable number of other killers to this list.

I am not familiar with the case you mention (Rader) so I cannot really comment but in the case of JtR, who killed a number of women within a relatively short space of time, I am not fully convinced the death penalty stopped him.

[The Good Michael]

Diana,

The death penalty has never been a crime deterrent. If it was applied to all violations from shoplifting on up, and was prosecuted on the spot with utmost immediacy, and preempted all televison shows, I might go along with it.

Mike

[caz]

Hi Diana,

Each serial killer may look at this differently, but if they all consider life cheap, they may deep down apply that to theirs too. I'm sure the majority do all they can to avoid getting caught, but when they are, I suspect they have to develop some strength of mind pretty quickly or lose the will to live. For some, like Fred West and Harold Shipman, death can't come quick enough and their last act of control over life and death is over their own.

Love,

Caz
X

[diana]

Not the Death Penalty Per Se

I believe, (correct me if I'm wrong) that the death penalty was in place in England before during and after the Ripper killings.

My point was that a change in government death penalty policy may well have influenced Rader.

What change in government policy might have taken place at about the time of the last canonical (Mary Kelly) killing?

I have one in mind but I wonder if anyone else can think of it.

[sdreid]

Isn't it funny when locking a man in a cage for 65 years is put forward as this great humanitarian gesture?

I don't care a lot about how much of a deterrent the death penalty is. Sometimes these sorts have just used up all their other chances.

[cappuccina]

The death penalty has never been a deterrent to crime. Is the murder rate low in FL - a death penalty state?? I think not!

In fact, in the US, states WITHOUT the DP have consistently LOWER murder rates:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates

Any questions?

[diana]

The Offer of Clemancy

JTR quit right after the government offered a pardon to any accomplice coming forward. The government changed its policy. If this is indeed what caused JTR to quit then:

1. There was an accomplice or at least someone who knew the identity of JTR and had not up to that time come forward.

2. The possibility of the accomplice being pardoned somehow altered the balance of power between JTR and the accomplice.

If I have a good friend or a relative and I begin to suspect that they have done something horrible and illegal my first reaction is denial. I go on and on in the face of increasing evidence insisting that this person couldn't possibly be capable of doing what I suspect them of.

In the meanwhile they repeat the act one or more times. Finally I confront them and my worst fears are confirmed. My first thought is that I must go to the police, but the person tells me if I do he will swear I was in on it from the beginning. I will hang right along with him.

This is not exactly the truth. A suspicion is not the same as knowledge. But is uncomfortably close to the truth. The distinction may not be apparent or provable to the judge. Also, if one or more murders occurred after the confrontation the relative or friend could be in legal trouble.

Then the pardon is announced. The accomplice is now in the saddle. If he wants to protect his family or the social group to which both he and Jack belong, he will insist that Jack stop. Facing the possibility of exposure Jack is forced to comply.

Alternatively the accomplice goes to the police and as a condition of revealing Jack's identity he insists that everything be handled quietly, again to protect the family or the social group.

In fact this may have been the very thing that led to the seaside home.

Relative to the death penalty: I suspect it stopped Rader. That is not to say it would stop everyone. We live in an imperfect world and even when there is a death penalty some people will kill.

If states with the highest murder rates are also death penalty states it is important to discriminate between cause and effect. It could be that the people of such states find the death penalty more acceptable because for whatever reason they are dealing with more crime. Let's not confuse cause and effect.

[jmenges]

Relative to the death penalty: I suspect it stopped Rader.

He was actively stalking another victim at the time of his arrest, and I believe he gave the stalking victim's name to the investigators. He said he had planned to kill the woman in October of 2005.

JM

[Mitch Rowe]

I believe, (correct me if I'm wrong) that the death penalty was in place in England before during and after the Ripper killings.

My point was that a change in government death penalty policy may well have influenced Rader.

What change in government policy might have taken place at about the time of the last canonical (Mary Kelly) killing?

I have one in mind but I wonder if anyone else can think of it.

Jack would have almost certainly been sentenced to death. Mary Pearcey was hanged in 1890.

[diana]

Rader was a publicity hound. He loved attention. Threatening to kill someone and stalking them is not the same as killing them.

[Howard Brown]

Dear Ms. Diana:

Personally...I don't think Rader ever considered getting caught. Based on that, I don't think the reversal of the statute in Kansas towards the D.P. was instrumental in his cessation of the murders.

Just my two cents.

I likewise do not believe that whether or not a state has or does not have the death penalty in force is a high priority for a man about to commit murder or even plan them...and that includes rapists who should also be given the death penalty. Most of them, of the ilk Rader belonged to, simply do not think they will be apprehended.

Have a good day.

[caz]

Hi Howie,

I have to agree with you that the penalty for a criminal's actions is often the last thing on his mind. I'm pretty sure the guy who goes out with a knife on a Friday night here in the UK doesn't think much beyond the fact that it's an essential bit of kit. He's not contemplating what he stands to lose if he's caught using it, any more than he's planning what song he'd like his mother to sing at his funeral if the next guy's knife gets him first.

Loss of freedom, loss of life - it seems to be all the same to some people. Do what you want and let the consequences (either to you or your fellow man) go hang.

Love,

Caz
X

[diana]

I just finished reading John Douglas' book, Inside the Mind of BTK. I was so fascinated I followed up with some web research.

I drew several conclusions as to why Rader was able to quit for so long.

First of all he collected trophies from his killings. Some of his sick cravings were met by the use of those trophies to relive the killing. He had a very rich fantasy life. There were many hand drawn pictures of a disgusting nature, polaroid snaps of the victims, poems he wrote, etc. By the time he had killed ten people he had quite a collection.

Secondly, his job as a compliance officer allowed him to exercise domination and control and even mental torture of others which satisfied his cravings to some extent. He harassed women mercilessly, abusing his authority over the residents of Park City. Mary Capps, a lady who worked for him reports that he made her life miserable and that she was afraid of him.

Thirdly Rader said that he was thinking about resuming his violent career because his children were all grown up and he was bored. One can only imagine what a tyrannical father he must have been. I'm sure that being an overly strict parent probably satisfied some of his needs as well.

Fourth, Douglass points out that on two occasions, his wife Paula caught him cross dressing and hanging himself. Not understanding either behavior she was deeply disturbed and angry. He had reason to fear that if she caught him again she would divorce him and that would lead to everything unraveling. After those incidents there was a long hiatus.

So a person can stop if they find a less risky way to achieve their sick cravings, and/or if they have been scared by nearly being caught.

I had always thought that Rader either quit because of the reinstitution of the death penalty, or that he never confessed to his post death penalty crimes for obvious reasons. Ken Landwehr said that once he started confessing it was impossible to shut him up. He seemed compelled to tell all, and a couple of killings not previously attributed to him were laid at his doorstep as a result. When his house was searched they found his sick writings, trophies, etc. in abundance. If he had killed again, the reasoning goes, he would have written about it or kept some souvenirs. Unless he was clever enough to realize that keeping souvenirs or writing about post death penalty killings might have been fatal.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to revisit the issue of Jack's trophies, possibly making a list or catalog, because it is possible that they enabled him to stop. It is also possible that someone in his life became suspicious which would force him to damp down his activities. He also might have had a life change which allowed him into (Heaven help us) a position of authority wherewith he could tyrranize and terrify others without killing them.

[BLUE WIZZARD]

GRK versus JTK

The Green river killer took time off, because he married someone that took care of his needs and cared for him.

So when he got his hands on a few bucks more than usual for his allowance, he would try to entice a hooker by waving the money at them.

Just a couple of extra dollars triggered his mind to troll.

He missed the killing and the extra bucks got his juices flowing again.

These killers do not stop altogether they just pause for a while.

BW