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Michel Eyraud & The Pinchin Street Torso

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  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
    Chose to be. Not "was", unless he was crippled.
    Not much of a choice, if all you have are a pair of legs to get you back to safety.
    It all fits nicely with somebody having a reason to pass through the territory on foot on a daily basis, IŽd say. Wouldn't you agree?
    No, I don't. Such a person could have chosen to kill elsewhere on his route, closer to his home, or somewhere else in London, instead of venturing into the middle of a hive of police activity to kill.

    Leave a comment:


  • Harry D
    replied
    Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
    You should go talk to Harry, who feels the killer would never, ever have stopped!
    But according to the single killer theory he didn't stop. He went from dumping the occasional torso over fifteen years, to a twelve week frenzy in 1888, and back again?

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  • John Wheat
    replied
    Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
    and six months between Kelly and McKenzie
    Just underlines how unlikely it is McKenzie was a Ripper victim.

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  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
    DeAngelo got it out of his system. Rader got it out of his system. Jeffrey Gorton got it out of his system.

    ..but the Ripper could not do so? He was different in this context?

    Care to explain why, Harry? You have taken a look at what he did and concluded that he would never stop, he would go on and on?

    Have you noticed that there was 25 days between Tabram and Nichols, 8 days between Nichols and Chapman, 22 days between Chapman and Stride/Eddowes - and 39 days between Stride/Eddowes and Kelly? It seems he was winding down? Should he not increase the speed instead, to fit with your take on things?

    Once more, if we accept that there was just the one killer, there are matters that seem unexpected to a smaller or larger degree.

    But since we have no real choice but to accept that there was just the one killer, the question we should ask ourselves is whether these matters are unbridgeable or not.

    And if you can show me an unbridgeable such matter, I will admit that there will have been two killers - or more.

    The timings of the Ripper murders is no such factor. He may have felt it had become too risky (which could also explain why the Kelly murder lagged behind), he may have decided it didn't give him what he was after or anything else. There are possible explanations.

    Is there any matter where no possible explanations can be offered, Harry? Or?
    and six months between Kelly and McKenzie

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  • Fisherman
    replied
    Originally posted by caz View Post
    We could also look at this the other way round, Gareth. Assuming the ripper was operating within his own acceptable comfort zone, anywhere else may have been off limits to him psychologically. He surely didn't lack the mobility to walk beyond 'this one small locale' easily enough, if the pavements immediately beneath his feet had become too hot for him. Or are we looking for someone with arthritic legs? As I have so often said, if his feet weren't nailed to the floor [or his hands 'tied' to a lamppost], something else kept him killing where - and when - the police presence was already steadily increasing.

    After the double event, the indoor murder of MJK may have been a last gasp for him before his comfort zone had become more of a discomfort zone.

    Love,

    Caz
    X
    You should go talk to Harry, who feels the killer would never, ever have stopped!

    Leave a comment:


  • Fisherman
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    The underlined is a very cogent observation. A mobile eviscerating killer could easily have found other hunting grounds during this period of high police presence, and the fact that he didn't speaks volumes about how tied to this one small locale he was.
    Chose to be. Not "was", unless he was crippled.

    It all fits nicely with somebody having a reason to pass through the territory on foot on a daily basis, IŽd say. Wouldn't you agree?

    Leave a comment:


  • caz
    replied
    We could also look at this the other way round, Gareth. Assuming the ripper was operating within his own acceptable comfort zone, anywhere else may have been off limits to him psychologically. He surely didn't lack the mobility to walk beyond 'this one small locale' easily enough, if the pavements immediately beneath his feet had become too hot for him. Or are we looking for someone with arthritic legs? As I have so often said, if his feet weren't nailed to the floor [or his hands 'tied' to a lamppost], something else kept him killing where - and when - the police presence was already steadily increasing.

    After the double event, the indoor murder of MJK may have been a last gasp for him before his comfort zone had become more of a discomfort zone.

    Love,

    Caz
    X

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Harry D View Post
    The Ripper... killed within a few months and kept to the same neck of the woods, even with its heightened police presence.
    The underlined is a very cogent observation. A mobile eviscerating killer could easily have found other hunting grounds during this period of high police presence, and the fact that he didn't speaks volumes about how tied to this one small locale he was.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fisherman
    replied
    Originally posted by Harry D View Post
    Quite right, Sam, and this is one of the major obstacles I have with the single killer theory. The Ripper had a voracious appetite for murder. He killed within a few months and kept to the same neck of the woods, even with its heightened police presence. Are we supposed to accept that the Ripper got this out of his system and went back to dumping the odd torso?
    DeAngelo got it out of his system. Rader got it out of his system. Jeffrey Gorton got it out of his system.

    ..but the Ripper could not do so? He was different in this context?

    Care to explain why, Harry? You have taken a look at what he did and concluded that he would never stop, he would go on and on?

    Have you noticed that there was 25 days between Tabram and Nichols, 8 days between Nichols and Chapman, 22 days between Chapman and Stride/Eddowes - and 39 days between Stride/Eddowes and Kelly? It seems he was winding down? Should he not increase the speed instead, to fit with your take on things?

    Once more, if we accept that there was just the one killer, there are matters that seem unexpected to a smaller or larger degree.

    But since we have no real choice but to accept that there was just the one killer, the question we should ask ourselves is whether these matters are unbridgeable or not.

    And if you can show me an unbridgeable such matter, I will admit that there will have been two killers - or more.

    The timings of the Ripper murders is no such factor. He may have felt it had become too risky (which could also explain why the Kelly murder lagged behind), he may have decided it didn't give him what he was after or anything else. There are possible explanations.

    Is there any matter where no possible explanations can be offered, Harry? Or?
    Last edited by Fisherman; 01-08-2019, 04:42 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Harry D
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    Indeed and, had he been more successful in finding suitable opportunities to kill, I daresay we'd have seen rather more than five "blitzed" victims during that short period. Even as things stand, it sure looks like the Ripper had a greedy demon to feed, an appetite seemingly absent from the torso cases.
    Quite right, Sam, and this is one of the major obstacles I have with the single killer theory. The Ripper had a voracious appetite for murder. He killed within a few months and kept to the same neck of the woods, even with its heightened police presence. Are we supposed to accept that the Ripper got this out of his system and went back to dumping the odd torso?

    Leave a comment:


  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by jerryd View Post
    From the Eyraud wiki:

    He noted in his autopsy report that the naked body was bound with seven meters of rope, the head was enveloped in a black oilskin cloth and that the victim had obviously died by strangulation three to five weeks before.


    In the four cases attributed to the Thames Torso killer [1887-1889], the head was removed, never to be found. I have to say, though, if we include the 1884 Tottenham Court case in the mix, the head was recovered in that case.
    thanks Jerry!
    as usual your input with all things torso much appreciated.

    Leave a comment:


  • jerryd
    replied
    From the Eyraud wiki:

    He noted in his autopsy report that the naked body was bound with seven meters of rope, the head was enveloped in a black oilskin cloth and that the victim had obviously died by strangulation three to five weeks before.


    In the four cases attributed to the Thames Torso killer [1887-1889], the head was removed, never to be found. I have to say, though, if we include the 1884 Tottenham Court case in the mix, the head was recovered in that case.
    Last edited by jerryd; 01-07-2019, 09:14 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
    Does anyone have any thoughts on Michel Eyraud as a possible candidate to be the Torso Killer? He was convicted of the August 1889 murder of Toussaint-Augsent Gouffe whose dismembered body was found in a canvas bag near a river in Lyon after having previously placed in a trunk. The trunk in question was purchased by Eyraud at a shop on the Euston Road in London in the preceding June. As Eyraud was known to travel extensively I'm wondering why this purchase of a new trunk was necessary. Was it because a previous trunk had been put to the same use? Purely speculative of course - but I do wonder as the MO fits.Not sure if the dates fit?
    hi Bridewell
    interesting. but The victim was a man. so not the torso killer.
    also-motive appeared for monetary gain, its in france and two people involved and the dismemberment was only for ease in disposal.
    not the torso killer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mayerling
    replied
    I have decided to add some pictures of Eyraud, Bompard, the trunk, and illustrations of Gouffe's murder in Paris. He had been invited for an evening with the gamin like Gabrielle Bompard, and when she playfully started undressing she took her corset off, and playfully put it around Gouffe's throat. He was standing with is back to a curtain (behind which was Eyraud) and Bompard quietly (while embracing Gouffe) was hooking the back of her corset to a rope connected over a pully to the rest of the rope held by Eyraud, who pulled and slowly hanged Gouffe. Whether this actually strangled the victim to death is still debated, because after lowering Gouffe's body to the ground Eyraud strangled him manually a second time. But the one who stated this was Gabrielle, and she did so at their joint trial, at which each tried to put the real blame on the other (both were probably equally guilty, but Gabrielle got a long prison sentence, and Eyraud went to the guilloutine).


    This is Michel Eyraud, the man who was behind the purchase of the trunk and the killing of Gouffe:




    This is Gabrielle Bompard, the bait to catch Gouffe.:





    I can't seem to get the pictures up. Sorry.
    Last edited by Mayerling; 01-07-2019, 08:11 AM. Reason: Trying to add illustrations.

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  • Fisherman
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    Indeed and, had he been more successful in finding suitable opportunities to kill, I daresay we'd have seen rather more than five "blitzed" victims during that short period. Even as things stand, it sure looks like the Ripper had a greedy demon to feed, an appetite seemingly absent from the torso cases.
    "It looks like". "Seemingly absent".

    The whole point is that when we drop the preconceived notions and look at what we KNOW instead of that we think we can conclude, a different picture emerges.

    Leave a comment:

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