Ian Brady dead

[DJA]

I would have included Ivan Milan, but thank goodness, he's gone.

Ivan Milat is still in Goulburn Correctional Centre doing seven consecutive life sentences.

[GUT]

Ivan Milat is still in Goulburn Correctional Centre doing seven consecutive life sentences.

I thought he'd died, mongrel should have

[Robert]

Peter Sutcliffe should be on the list. Also Sidney Cooke.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Sentencing comparisons

It's a sobering thought, especially for Norwegians, that Anders Behring Breivik who killed 77 people, received a 21 year sentence! This sentence can be extended but it could mean that Breivik will know freedom again before he reaches 60! although I can't imagine him being welcomed back into the community with open arms! The only comment that I can make on Brady's death is that it came far, far too late. I agree with the earlier poster that he probably couldn't even remember where Keith Bennett was buried but it was enough for him that Keith's poor mother thought that he did. Theres a front page headline in the Daily Mirror in the U.K saying that Brady wanted his ashes scattered on the moors....I think not.

[Phil Carter]

It's a sobering thought, especially for Norwegians, that Anders Behring Breivik who killed 77 people, received a 21 year sentence! This sentence can be extended but it could mean that Breivik will know freedom again before he reaches 60! although I can't imagine him being welcomed back into the community with open arms! The only comment that I can make on Brady's death is that it came far, far too late. I agree with the earlier poster that he probably couldn't even remember where Keith Bennett was buried but it was enough for him that Keith's poor mother thought that he did. Theres a front page headline in the Daily Mirror in the U.K saying that Brady wanted his ashes scattered on the moors....I think not.

Hello HS,

Re Breivik. The maximum sentence for any crime in Norway is 21 years. The "extension" you talk of is an auto extension, that can be granted within the final years. That period is for an additional 5 years. It..the sentence..can then be extended another 5 years and be done as often as needed.
Therefore there us no realistic chance at all that Breivik will ever be released back into the community. It is just a technicality of Norwegian law that requires the process to proceed in that manner. Just as Breivik can apply for parole..and he will..you can bet a lot of money on it.. the State can apply for as many extentions they want.
Breivik is regarded in Norway as a traitor.. much as Quisling was at the end of WWII. That label is the worst comment from the Norwegian people that can be attributed any Norwegian citizen.
I have lived here in Norway for over 36 years.

Regards

Phil

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hello Phil,
Thanks for the reply. I suspected that the extension in Breivik's case would never , could never happen. It's good that a country like Norway could probably show us the way when it comes to an enlightened penal system. It also shows that just because a country has such a system it doesn't follow that they could be so naive as to release a dangerous madman. It's just that when people read 21 years they think....what!
All the best
HS

[Phil Carter]

Hello Phil,
Thanks for the reply. I suspected that the extension in Breivik's case would never , could never happen. It's good that a country like Norway could probably show us the way when it comes to an enlightened penal system. It also shows that just because a country has such a system it doesn't follow that they could be so naive as to release a dangerous madman. It's just that when people read 21 years they think....what!
All the best
HS

Hi HS,

Thanks for the reply.
You aren't the only one who read "21 years" with incredulity.
It had to be pointed out pdq to the foreign press at the time that the 5 year extensions were almost mandatory in this case. Breivik will never taste freedom in his lifetime. He wouldn't last 5 minutes.
Like Brady. .he plays all sorts of mind gameseith the authorities. Well..he tries.
The man isnt just hated.. he dishonoured the status "Norwegian"..which is regarded as ..like Quisling.. total treachery.

Regards

Phil

[Robert]

Over here the message is to avoid Oxbridge people like the plague, because apparently different rules apply to them :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-39947017

[Harry D]

Over here the message is to avoid Oxbridge people like the plague, because apparently different rules apply to them :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-39947017

Down with the patriarc-...wait wut?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Phil, it's a scary thought if you think about how many other potential 'Breivik's,' there are out there. Just sitting at computer screens immersing themselves in conspiracy theories and convincing themselves that they are the one to 'make a stand,' against whatever perceived injustice they find. All it takes is for one, slightly unbalanced, person to be told that he has a special reason to feel aggrieved or offended or betrayed. It could take a fairly short time to move from 'slightly unbalanced,' to 'homicidal madman.'
It makes you look at that bloke that just moved into the next flat slightly differently.
Sleep well !
HS

[Phil Carter]

Phil, it's a scary thought if you think about how many other potential 'Breivik's,' there are out there. Just sitting at computer screens immersing themselves in conspiracy theories and convincing themselves that they are the one to 'make a stand,' against whatever perceived injustice they find. All it takes is for one, slightly unbalanced, person to be told that he has a special reason to feel aggrieved or offended or betrayed. It could take a fairly short time to move from 'slightly unbalanced,' to 'homicidal madman.'
It makes you look at that bloke that just moved into the next flat slightly differently.
Sleep well !
HS

Hi HS,

Thank you for the reply.

Breivik's background is complicated and quite different to the simpler possibility written above. However I see the point you are making.
One of the problems in today's society is the hidden dangerman. Many sites online have thankfully, ..like this one.. rigid vetting procedures. Of course..nobody can be totally sure of any person's personal attachment to a field.
And there are unsound minds in all walks of life.

At the time if the Brady and Hindley crimes, the UK was still in the grip of the after-war attitude of the older generation. Children still played out in the streets in relative safety. Neighbours looked out of their windows and saw "strangers" to the street. Most mothers stayed at home. It seems naive today..but in general..it worked.
Brady and his side kick changed all of that. The warnings of "never talk to strange men" " don't take sweets from a stranger" and the like were hammered into the minds of children. I was one of those children. We still had the freedom..of sorts.. but time limits for coming home were imposed far more strictly. According to my own parents, these two evil people really did frighten a whole nation of parents.

All very sad.



Regards

Phil

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Phil

Couldn't agree more. It's one of the reasons that conmen target older people. Not just because their mental faculties possibly aren't what they were but because they grew up in a more open, trusting (yes, you could probably say innocent) time. Someone who robbed or conned a pensioner then would be treated as someone beyond the pale whereas we now have a tendency toward almost sympathy. Deprived backgrounds, absent parents and drug dependency are often cited. While these things undoubtedly contribute to someone's psychological make up they should never be used as an excuse.
I'm starting to sound like my dad. 51 years old and already a grumpy old man!
All the best
HS

[Robert]

I think one of the reasons the elderly are losing their aura of sacred cows when it comes to being targets of crime, is that so few of them survive from the really bad times - the wars and the Depression. A man who was in WW2 at age 18 in 1945 would now be 90. If we look at today's pensioners at the younger end, they're probably more associated with Teddy Boys and hippies.

[Phil Carter]

I think one of the reasons the elderly are losing their aura of sacred cows when it comes to being targets of crime, is that so few of them survive from the really bad times - the wars and the Depression. A man who was in WW2 at age 18 in 1945 would now be 90. If we look at today's pensioners at the younger end, they're probably more associated with Teddy Boys and hippies.

Hi Robert,

Yes..I agree. It seems strange for anyone from the younger generation reading this to realise that even though I am nearly 59, my gran was born in 1888 and died in 1978. Think about it. I was influenced by someone influenced my Victorians born in the mid Victorian period. HER gran was born in 1829 and died in 1918. My mothers gt gran was ALIVE when Mum was born in 1916.

What that should tell all is how we..born after WW2 in the 1950's..were influenced by a society that had lived through two world wars and even other wars before WW1. The man was the patriarch and earned the money. The woman raised the kids. That didn't change substantially until the 1960's in the UK. But INFLUENCE carried on through the Victorian era until the 1970's.

The Brady and Hindley pair also grew up with those same influences. The older generation had no respect for the younger one. However..society was slowly changing and one small group of people were demonstrating, through behaviour, their disgust at Victorian values.

It only takes one mentally imbalanced person like Brady to act out his new feeling of indepence HIS way and before long.. you have the ultimate anti-establishmentarialist taking individual power to an extreme.

That's why our generation's parents were so shocked. It struck a blow to the core of a solid family society. The threat was now real. Very real. Control of normal values had been lost.

I tell 7th grade kids that my gran was 21 the first time she switched an electric light on. They gasp. They don't believe it. Todays kids are totally unlike us at their age. They have no solid history to base growing up upon because THEIR history is in a state of constant change.

All surreal to the oldest generation you mentioned Robert. When the 1950's kids die off..there will be no viable connection to the Victorian age left.


Phil

[GUT]

Just noticed something funny Phil.

I'm 58 this year. So near enough to the same age.

You say your gran (I assume Grandmother) was born in 1888. But for me it was my Great Grandmother who was born in 1888.