R.L.S., H.J., & E.H.: a questions of sources and results

[Mayerling]

Jeff, you give the guy way to much credit, as if there might be some consistency in his thinking.

The portrait he linked to showing the arm in the position of Kelly's arm was to one of Mary, Queen of Scots.

The subject of Tennyson's play, to which he has also referred, was Queen Mary of England.

Yes, of course, he got the two Marys confused but has tried to style it out.

Well Dave, it is the New Year. Let's try to be a little forbearing here - after all my own ideas can be totally wrong too.

Forgetting Pierre for the moment, what do you think of the possibility of some kind of influence by reading or (if seeing the play with Mansfield in it) on the killer?

Jeff

[Pierre]

Well Dave, it is the New Year. Let's try to be a little forbearing here - after all my own ideas can be totally wrong too.

Forgetting Pierre for the moment, what do you think of the possibility of some kind of influence by reading or (if seeing the play with Mansfield in it) on the killer?

Jeff

Thanks Jeff,

And David is continuing his attacks on me in his discussion with you, trying to correct you and misinterpreting me.

Mary is represented by the two queens: One for Lord Mayor´s Day in Tennysons play, one for the position of the arm in the painting.

Mary Kelly was killed on Lord Mayor´s Day and the killer positioned her arm as in the painting.

It is not "the same queen". It is one victim: one Mary with the attributes of two queens.

At least one could expect that people here were serious. But David is constantly making up lies about me and he is systematically misinterpreting everyting I write. So David is the one who is wrong.

Very sorry to bother you with it, Jeff.

Regards, Pierre

[John G]

Have you been reading Alice in Wonderland again, Pierre? Are there any other fairy tales that you also enjoy? Apart from the one about your suspect, of course.

[David Orsam]

It is not "the same queen". It is one victim: one Mary with the attributes of two queens.

Like I said, Pierre styling it out. The attributes of two queens indeed!

[David Orsam]

Forgetting Pierre for the moment, what do you think of the possibility of some kind of influence by reading or (if seeing the play with Mansfield in it) on the killer?

I really have no comment to make on this Jeff.

Happy new year to you though!

[John G]

Happy New Year, David and Jeff!

[David Orsam]

And to you John.

[Mayerling]

Thanks Jeff,

And David is continuing his attacks on me in his discussion with you, trying to correct you and misinterpreting me.

Mary is represented by the two queens: One for Lord Mayor´s Day in Tennysons play, one for the position of the arm in the painting.

Mary Kelly was killed on Lord Mayor´s Day and the killer positioned her arm as in the painting.

It is not "the same queen". It is one victim: one Mary with the attributes of two queens.

At least one could expect that people here were serious. But David is constantly making up lies about me and he is systematically misinterpreting everyting I write. So David is the one who is wrong.

Very sorry to bother you with it, Jeff.

Regards, Pierre

Well, a dichotomy representation of the two 16th Century Queens for Mary Kelly is curious, to say the least.

One thing has bothered me about the Tennyson play. I have a copy of it in an old edition of the complete poems and plays of Tennyson, and I ploughed through it. What brought that awful play to your attention? During the 19th Century only one major poet in Britain actually wrote a play that is still possible to act. It was Shelley, with his "murder play" "The Cenci", set in late Renaissance Italy. But Tennyson and Browning flopped as playwrites.

On another thread today, I made a joke regarding "Enoch Soames", the short novella by Max Beerbohm from a collection, "Seven Men and Two Others". One of the other novellas in that collection is Beerbohm's spoof of historical playwriting, "Savenarola Brown", about Beerbohm being executor to a would-be dramatist who spent most of his life trying to write a great historical drama about Renaissance Italy. Supposedly concerning an impossible love affair between the Florentine religious reformer Savenarola and Lucrezia Borgia, Beerbohm's "Brown" throws in every possible figure of the Renaissance, and at one point, in a stage direction, casts a dart at Browning. Among the myriads of historical figures we are told "Pippa passes."

Ploughing through Tennyson's murky cardboard figured historical work about the horrible burnings at Smithfield of Protestants in Mary I's reign, I realized that he too deserved his historical comeuppance in theatre: when his play about female education "The Princess" became Gilbert & Sullivan's only three act operetta, "Princess Ida". And even Gilbert's customary sheen as a comic master sort of wilted in "Ida' which (with "Utopia Ltd." and "The Grand Duke", among the operettas whose scores exist) it is rarely performed. I think "The Sorcerer" and "Ruddygore" (or "Ruddigore") are performed more often.

How did Tennyson's real dreck come to your attention? This really bugs me.

If you have a chance please explain.

Jeff

[Mayerling]

Happy New Year, David and Jeff!

Happy and healthy New Year to you John, and also to David.

Jeff

[Henry Flower]

Thanks Jeff,

And David is continuing his attacks on me in his discussion with you, trying to correct you and misinterpreting me.

Mary is represented by the two queens: One for Lord Mayor´s Day in Tennysons play, one for the position of the arm in the painting.

Mary Kelly was killed on Lord Mayor´s Day and the killer positioned her arm as in the painting.

It is not "the same queen". It is one victim: one Mary with the attributes of two queens.

At least one could expect that people here were serious. But David is constantly making up lies about me and he is systematically misinterpreting everyting I write. So David is the one who is wrong.

Very sorry to bother you with it, Jeff.

Regards, Pierre

Any other Queen Marys you want to throw into the mix Pierre? Why stop at two? Interesting that this idea of two Marys reared its head only since David pointed out your hilarious error, or can you show us any earlier reference to it?

[GUT]

Have you been reading Alice in Wonderland again, Pierre? Are there any other fairy tales that you also enjoy? Apart from the one about your suspect, of course.

Doubt he's really got a suspect.

[Mayerling]

Doubt he's really got a suspect.

Happy New Year to you and your missus Gut.

Jeff

[GUT]

Happy New Year to you and your missus Gut.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, same back to you.

[John G]

Doubt he's really got a suspect.

I think he might keep changing it! And Happy New Year, GUT.

[GUT]

I think he might keep changing it! And Happy New Year, GUT.

Possibly.

Thanks and same to you and yours.