Donald Trump

[jason_c]

Today white supremacists claimed to have put Donald Trump into the White House, after he blamed "many sides" for the violence between racists and counter demonstrators at a "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virgina.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-charlottesville_us_598f29c2e4b0909642973a6c

There have been some deaths and several injuries after a car plowed into the crowd. To Trump's credit, he did call for Americans to unite against hate, but saying they will "study" what happened today to "figure out" the problem seems a bit strange.

It's only strange if you think Trump should have jumped to conclusions as to the perp and his motives. He made the statement only hours after the event. Im quite willing to admit it was likely a politically motivated attack, but at the time it might just have been a road rage incident - a car caught up in the protest and the driver going mental.

Yes, I agree Trump could do more to condemn the far right specifically. Now, I suspect I am indulging in whataboutery here, but it's the type of stance the left take on various forms of left wing or Islamic violence. I mean there must be a reason Obama didn't mention Islamic terrorism quite as often as he should have after specific attacks. It's kinda the same reason that for years the BBC blamed Asians for child sex grooming gangs in the UK. Everyone's indulging in bias and a degree of bad faith here, and that includes the huffpo article you linked to.

[jason_c]

Aye, it was a popular threat leading up to the election, Americans would sell up and move here to Canada.
Some did....

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/dec/14/im-moving-to-canada-the-cops-pop-stars-and-athletes-who-made-good-on-the-threat

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/05/02/trump-first-100-days-more-people-moved-to-canada/101196100/

But, as is often the case others decided to hang tight and see what happens.

We jumped ship in England all those years ago, in part because of Maggie Thatcher. So I can sympathize with these Americans.

Im still convinced the famous Canadian immigration website crash on election night was a case of trolling of the highest nature.

Im also reminded of a year or two after 9/11. A poll indicated the number of Democrats who attributed the 9/11 attacks to the US Govt was surprisingly high. We had a substantial number of US citizens willing to believe the US govt killed 3,000 of its citizens in cold blood. Yet, virtually no US citizens were claiming political asylum in foreign lands. I suspect had these folk really believed the US gov't could kill 3,000 of its own we would have seen vast numbers of citizens flee the US. My conclusion; the poll respondents were showing either petty partisanship, cognitive dissonance, or perhaps there really is nowt as queer as folk.

[Svensson]

Threatening nuclear war no longer the worst thing Trump has done this week.

DONALD Trump has impressed the international community by managing to make threatening a pre-emptive nuclear strike seem comparatively reasonable.

By declining to criticise a group of Nazis for murdering a woman in cold blood for disagreeing with them, Trump knocked imminent Armageddon off the top spot and into a second place where it competes with his suggestion he might invade Venezuela.

Political analyst Julian cook said: “For most people, the realistic threat of nuclear immolation for a large part of humanity would be a bit of a showstopper. But you know Donald, he always got to go one better.

“And from his tweets, you know he never sleeps and is always thinking of more stuff to do.”

A White House spokesman said: “It’s only Monday.”

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/threatening-nuclear-war-no-longer-the-worst-thing-trump-has-done-this-week-20170814133985

[Steadmund Brand]

To be fair, he DID come out and condemn the hate groups yesterday.. I guess better late then never, and I was impressed, he stayed on script and didn't try to improvise this time.. so it was a decent statement (I love when you can tell he adds words like " big" or "great" or "best" where they don't belong....makes the statements sound like a 3rd grader)...

the backlash may be he is at a historically low rating (lowest approval rating in the history of Gallup) and those groups do make up a portion of his base (as they admit.. they claim to be his base... that is not a false statement.. and NO I AM NOT SAYING EVERYONE IN HIS BASE IS A MEMBER OF THESE GROUPS!!!!) but if he loses those "people" as supporters...just imagine how low his approval rating will be.... YIKES

anyway the point is, whether or not you think he wanted to make that statement.... HE DID MAKE ONE...

Steadmund Brand

[Pcdunn]

Hi, Steady,

Yes, he called the groups by name two days later, after comments from Pence and other WH reps to assure us that he DID mean all those groups failed to satisfy the press. Fair enough, but I wonder at the tweet afterwards, in which Trump supposedly said "the Fake News will never be satisfied!"

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-updates-trump-tweets-charlottesville-fake-news-bad-people-htmlstory.html

Additionally, today, two retweets on Trump's account have appeared, and then been deleted (possibly by someone handling the account for him), both initially seeming to approve of the alt-right.

One was a cartoon showing a train labelled "Trump" running over a human figure with the CNN logo for his head:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/08/15/after-charlottesville-trump-retweets-then-deletes-image-of-train-running-over-cnn-reporter/?utm_term=.fcc28579908d

The other, a comment in response to Trump's statement that he might pardon controversial anti-immigration Sheriff Arpaio from a pro-Trump supporter read "He's a fascist, so that's all right" (and the author later indicated he meant Trump himself):

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/15/trump-retweet-fascist-joe-arpaio-241646

So -- is Trump on the side of the alt-right, or just making mistakes?

[Steadmund Brand]

I just said to be fair he made the statement... if you choose to believe he meant it or not, that is for you to decide

Steadmund Brand

[jason_c]

I think Trump has today altered the US political landscape for the forseeable future. After today nothing in US politics will be quite the same imo. White Identitarian politics have officially landed. Not sure how I feel about it tbh other than it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Pcdunn]

Jason,

"We shall overcome", to quote a protest song from my youth. We must, to preserve the ideals of our country.

Take care, friends. We live in interesting times, indeed...

[GUT]

What I keep coming back to, us, "If he is so bad, how did you elect him?"

[Sam Flynn]

What I keep coming back to, is, "If he is so bad, how did you elect him?"

Two or three decades of vacuous, game-show type television eventually takes its toll on the voting public. Elections have increasingly come to resemble a celebrity sing-off.

[Pcdunn]

What I keep coming back to, us, "If he is so bad, how did you elect him?"

Not everyone voted at all.They are as responsible as the Republican lawmakers who endorsed him, and are still supporting him. Eventually a stand must be taken against hatred and bigotry. That goes for both voters and elected officials.

[Svensson]

I think we can call it an increased "risk appetite" of voters in western democracies like we have seen with Brexit and to a certain extent with the rise of "unorthodox" candidates in France and the Netherlands as well. Risks sometimes pay off, sometimes they don't. That might have been the thinking of a lot of people who voted for him. Added to that the extrem partisanship in currernt US politics. Many people might have voted Republican despite Trump.

[Jon Guy]

Is Donald the only one getting a hiding after those shameful scenes in Charlottesville ?

Me, I`d be naming and shaming whomever was dressing kids up in KKK gear

[Svensson]

yes, it seems that he is the only one getting a hiding atm and seen in isolation, this appears to be unfair. But I think this is also a gotcha moment. Trump has been straight of of the blocks to tweet about Islamic terrorism, even while the incidents were still going on. He also jumped the gun on the Air Egypt flight that disappeared over the Med and the shooter in the Philippines. So he has shown many times in the past that no, he does not wait for the facts to become clear as he had stated. In his behaviour, he has confirmed the press correct in that he applies different standards to different events, basically depending on whether the event fits his agenda or not.

[Steadmund Brand]

What I keep coming back to, us, "If he is so bad, how did you elect him?"

Because sadly the younger people in this country are far to lazy to vote... oh they always talk big and are loud and proud on social media about how much they care.. and they will protest like nobody's business but, for example, in this recent election it is estimated that only 48-53% of those under 30 eligible to voted.. that is a sad statement....this isn't new...the # has been going down every election.... and that is for President... the # is FAR LOWER in mid term elections....

Plus, Hillary Clinton did received 2 million more votes to be fair.. but the electoral college is different than the popular vote...right or wrong.. that is how it is... for now....

and also, we are a celebrity obsessed society... and he fit that bill...that and people are frustrated by how things are, and they actually believed what he was selling... something different... drain the swamp blah blah...they were conned into believing something that wasn't quite true....he bashed wall street and money men.. then gave them all cabinet positions... and his supports are ok with it....because people (on BOTH SIDES) listen to the loud bark, hear the sound bytes and talking points and only watch the news they agree with...we have allowed our citizens to live inside media bubbles.. where they get affirmation instead of information....and again.. this is BOTH SIDES.. don't start attacking me folks claiming I am just "Fake news supporting" or "against Trump because I have a liberal bias" these are just arguments used by people when they have no real argument

Sorry to rant....

Steadmund Brand