Donald Trump

[Patrick S]

You list far more than I would have been able to think of off the top of my head. Are you suggesting they do not have conservative equivalents?



I suppose this is true. Though the supporters on either side attacked opposing supporters with equal fervour, I guess Democrat-friendly media was more guilty of targeting the voters of the other side. Mind you, I haven't watched the American conservative media all that much, but let us stipulate that what you say is true.



I get it, you're not a Trump guy - you're the average Trump voter. That's what I said: this election was not about voting for a candidate, it was voting against candidates. But I can't help but remain baffled at how many simply bought Trump's rhetoric hook, line and sinker: Hillary is supposedly the corrupt one; Hillary is supposedly the crook; Hillary is supposedly the liar; Hillary is supposedly the criminal. Or "Hitlary" as I kept reading at every turn. All accusations which could - and should - be more accurately levelled at Trump. Demonstrably so. And now, are you trying to suggest the reason Clinton lost is because of the hostile rhetoric she used? Colour me amazed.



I'm not sure what your point is, here. Are you drawing attention to people objecting to the NYT headline, or are you trying to draw attention to the headline itself? Neither surprises me. This has not been your average presidential election, and when the rest of the Western world stares on in disbelief, is it so hard to imagine that certain domestic news outlets will express the same? Anyway, had Hillary won, do you really think the Trump supporters - voters or media - would simply have sucked it up? I foresaw riots either way.



I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make here either, by quoting celebs.

You missed every point. Not surprising as you're discussing matters you don't understand. My fault. I should have realized that before we both wasted a lot of keystrokes.

[Ginger]

I'm ecstatic to see Trump elected. We finally have someone who does seem, quite honestly, as though he'll listen to, and respect the views and needs of, the working class. No-one else in this election cycle, with the exceptions of Bernie Sanders (my second choice), and possibly Dr. Carson, showed the least sign of doing that. It's not just the Democrats' party establishment which has been left in flaming ruins, but the Republicans' also. Trump is neither a Republican nor a conservative. He doesn't owe any favours to party elders, and he doesn't have to pave the way for those who will follow. He's his own man, and because of that, he is unspeakably dangerous to the Establishment. I wish him every success.

[Hercule Poirot]

I'm ecstatic to see Trump elected. We finally have someone who does seem, quite honestly, as though he'll listen to, and respect the views and needs of, the working class. No-one else in this election cycle, with the exceptions of Bernie Sanders (my second choice), and possibly Dr. Carson, showed the least sign of doing that. It's not just the Democrats' party establishment which has been left in flaming ruins, but the Republicans' also. Trump is neither a Republican nor a conservative. He doesn't owe any favours to party elders, and he doesn't have to pave the way for those who will follow. He's his own man, and because of that, he is unspeakably dangerous to the Establishment. I wish him every success.

With all due respect, I think you're quite naive saying "he'll listen to, and respect the views and needs of, the working class". He never did and only used the issues facing the middle class to stir them up and make them believe he was on their side. Trump is and has only been in favour of Trump and the hell with the others.

Instead of voting with an understanding of of the issues and the solutions proposed by Trump and Clinton, Americans expressed what they have been doing on Facebook for years: a seminal and spontaneous 'I Like'.

Sadly, it sort of defines what the American people has now turned into.

Then again, time will tell.

Hercule Poirot

[GUT]

I'm ecstatic to see Trump elected. We finally have someone who does seem, quite honestly, as though he'll listen to, and respect the views and needs of, the working class. No-one else in this election cycle, with the exceptions of Bernie Sanders (my second choice), and possibly Dr. Carson, showed the least sign of doing that. It's not just the Democrats' party establishment which has been left in flaming ruins, but the Republicans' also. Trump is neither a Republican nor a conservative. He doesn't owe any favours to party elders, and he doesn't have to pave the way for those who will follow. He's his own man, and because of that, he is unspeakably dangerous to the Establishment. I wish him every success.

And for the same reasons potentially makes him unspeakably dangerous to the nation too.

[Hercule Poirot]

And for the same reasons potentially makes him unspeakably dangerous to the nation too.

Your so right.

[GUT]

Your so right.

A fairly old story, "Do you take the risk?"

Seems America decided to, I guess time will tell if it was a good bet.

[Hercule Poirot]

A fairly old story, "Do you take the risk?"

Seems America decided to, I guess time will tell if it was a good bet.

What's the point in being reasonnable and intelligent when I could be dumb as a rock like all those around me?

[Karl]

You missed every point. Not surprising as you're discussing matters you don't understand. My fault. I should have realized that before we both wasted a lot of keystrokes.

It is entirely your fault when you are more concerned with insulting people than explaining your point, yes.

Interesting, by the way, that you should simply wave me off as "not getting your points" when in the two last paragraphs I asked specifically what your points were. This tells me you didn't even read my post, but didn't want to back out without a parting shot.

[Karl]

With all due respect, I think you're quite naive saying "he'll listen to, and respect the views and needs of, the working class". He never did and only used the issues facing the middle class to stir them up and make them believe he was on their side. Trump is and has only been in favour of Trump and the hell with the others.

Instead of voting with an understanding of of the issues and the solutions proposed by Trump and Clinton, Americans expressed what they have been doing on Facebook for years: a seminal and spontaneous 'I Like'.

Sadly, it sort of defines what the American people has now turned into.

Then again, time will tell.

Hercule Poirot

Indeed. Promises, promises. Trump has, among other things, promised a tax cut for low incomes, but I just don't see that happening. Also, his insistence that the solutions to just about everything are so simple, that's something we are quite familiar with from the Progress Party here in Norway, too. For the longest time, they were a minority party and all that while they kept mouthing off from the gallery about everything wrong with the government's policies, and how easy it was to fix things. The last election did place them in government, however, in coalition with the Conservative Party - and all their bravado disappeared. All the easy fixes were suddenly not so easy anymore. They did manage to repeal a sleeping and obscure law from the early 1900s concerning goods in our possession belonging to a nation we might suddenly be in war with; they managed to legalise professional boxing, and they successfully removed the 18-year age limit for licorice pipes.

The only political systems in which cange is quick and easy are the non-democratic ones. Red tape and glue under the soles of one's feet is the price to pay for democracy - to the extent it can even be called such. "Yes, Minister" nailed it pretty well.

[Mayerling]

Indeed. Promises, promises. Trump has, among other things, promised a tax cut for low incomes, but I just don't see that happening. Also, his insistence that the solutions to just about everything are so simple, that's something we are quite familiar with from the Progress Party here in Norway, too. For the longest time, they were a minority party and all that while they kept mouthing off from the gallery about everything wrong with the government's policies, and how easy it was to fix things. The last election did place them in government, however, in coalition with the Conservative Party - and all their bravado disappeared. All the easy fixes were suddenly not so easy anymore. They did manage to repeal a sleeping and obscure law from the early 1900s concerning goods in our possession belonging to a nation we might suddenly be in war with; they managed to legalise professional boxing, and they successfully removed the 18-year age limit for licorice pipes.

The only political systems in which cange is quick and easy are the non-democratic ones. Red tape and glue under the soles of one's feet is the price to pay for democracy - to the extent it can even be called such. "Yes, Minister" nailed it pretty well.

Your comment reminds me of another perennial critic of government in opposition: Maximillian Robespierre. Up to 1793 he was never more than a well known orator from the "Jacobin" club who was a member of the National Assembly, and had been extremely critical of every government up to that time in the French Revolution. Then he finally is one of the twelve men selected for the "Committee of Public Safety". And he succeeds in only a year in falling from power and being executed.

He does try to keep prices under control, but he ends up fighting the right wing (the Dantonists) and the left wing (the Hebertists) until a scandal involving members of both those groups allows him to use the "Terror' to gut their leadership. But in doing so, he bows to pressures against the lower class Sans-culottes (who supported him) by going after and executing Hebert and his followers (who were supposedly more left wing). This undercuts Robespierre's own support. Then he tries to impose a new religion based on "pure reason", which angers everyone. As a result, he and his closest associates (St.Just, Couthon) end up with him under the guiloutine at 9 Thermidor. Although a right wing "White Terror" follows, Robespierre's fall ends the main part of the "Reign of Terror". He was more effective as a critic than a constructive statesman.

Jeff

[Robert]

Hi Jeff

Just pondering Robespierre and the atmosphere in France during his rule, with foreign troops on French soil. Also Russia after their revolution. I was going to say that the Americans managed to sidestep dictatorship and paranoia when they had their war of independence. I suppose you'll tell me that there was a bit of it, but not a lot?

[sdreid]

When Trump assumes office in January, it will be the first time that three Presidents, along with W. Clinton and Bush II, were born in the same year- 1946.

[Abby Normal]

With all due respect, I think you're quite naive saying "he'll listen to, and respect the views and needs of, the working class". He never did and only used the issues facing the middle class to stir them up and make them believe he was on their side. Trump is and has only been in favour of Trump and the hell with the others.

Instead of voting with an understanding of of the issues and the solutions proposed by Trump and Clinton, Americans expressed what they have been doing on Facebook for years: a seminal and spontaneous 'I Like'.

Sadly, it sort of defines what the American people has now turned into.

Then again, time will tell.

Hercule Poirot

Sadly, it sort of defines what the American people has now turned into.

On Veterans day on behalf of the American people in general and all who served specifically I give you a hearty **** YOU.

and the edited out part starts with an F and ends in a K. Just so were clear

[Abby Normal]

You missed every point. Not surprising as you're discussing matters you don't understand. My fault. I should have realized that before we both wasted a lot of keystrokes.

well said Patrick. its worthless trying to debate with the bitter Euro Weanie.

[Abby Normal]

It is entirely your fault when you are more concerned with insulting people than explaining your point, yes.

Interesting, by the way, that you should simply wave me off as "not getting your points" when in the two last paragraphs I asked specifically what your points were. This tells me you didn't even read my post, but didn't want to back out without a parting shot.

WAAAAAAA!!!! cry baby. heres your participation trophy and pink balloon.
now run along.