Donald Trump

[Abby Normal]

I come onto a Jack the Ripper forum and discover people speaking about someone even worse.

LOL! Welcome to Casebook.
Its a hot mess

[Patrick S]

Oh, so that's why you got so defensive. I called you an average Trum-voter because, well, you fit the bill. "I'm no fan of Trump's, but..." Like I said - and I am repeating myself for the umpeenth time here - this election was not about voting for a favourite candidate, but voting against the greater evil. The average Hillary-voter was the same: "I don't like Hillary either, but..."

And no, if you had an argument, you would have presented it, because an actual argument always trumps - no pun intended - derisive remarks devoid of content. "Everyone knows" - might as well have said "yo' mama" for all the gravitas it lends you. To think, you still haven't addressed what I said, but just repeat the same accusations. Let me try the same tactic:

You haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about.
What you're suggesting is absurd and everyone knows it.

Were you in any way moved by this rhetoric? Would I have much success if I kept it up?

I wasn't moved because those comments don't apply to me, they apply to you.

What is your point? That I was wrong about in my opinions about what I think drove at least some people to vote for Trump? Is your overarching point that Americans are racist, misogynistic, Islamaphobic isolationists and THAT'S why Trump will be the next president? If so, you're in good company. The American media has - for the most part - reached the same conclusion. I simply believe it's not nearly that simple. Elections never are. I'm not sure what you said that I'm supposed to 'address'. Why don't you tell me! That might work.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I wasn't moved because those comments don't apply to me, they apply to you.

What is your point? That I was wrong about in my opinions about what I think drove at least some people to vote for Trump? Is your overarching point that Americans are racist, misogynistic, Islamaphobic isolationists and THAT'S why Trump will be the next president? If so, you're in good company. The American media has - for the most part - reached the same conclusion. I simply believe it's not nearly that simple. Elections never are. I'm not sure what you said that I'm supposed to 'address'. Why don't you tell me! That might work.

Strange how a successful country such as the United States is supposedly full of idiots. How could a nation be so successful and hold ideals that are worth holding while at the same time be full of idiots?

The truth of course is that continental Europeans have always held disdain for the United States, see de Tocqueville with his back-handed compliments and subsequent 'experts'.

They're the same with us. How could we possibly reject the European Union? How could Americans possibly reject their system which they've had enough of?

Continental Europeans could not possibly ever understand rejecting the system because that's not their history, and, that said, the only conclusion that makes sense to them is: "everyone is stupid".

[Patrick S]

Strange how a successful country such as the United States is supposedly full of idiots. How could a nation be so successful and hold ideals that are worth holding while at the same time be full of idiots?

The truth of course is that continental Europeans have always held disdain for the United States, see de Tocqueville with his back-handed compliments and subsequent 'experts'.

They're the same with us. How could we possibly reject the European Union? How could Americans possibly reject their system which they've had enough of?

Continental Europeans could not possibly ever understand rejecting the system because that's not their history, and, that said, the only conclusion that makes sense to them is: "everyone is stupid".

Agreed. To be fair the consensus seems to be that everyone is stupid....and racist...and homophobic, Islamaphobic, sexist, anti-puppies, anti-cold beer, and anti-Oprah.

I think most people can agree that Donald Trump is boorish, rude, vain, arrogant, and probably not a really wonderful guy. I can't say any of that for certain because - and I have to be honest here - I don't actually know him. But he is NOT something that I think worked for him in spite of everything else: He is not a politician. And he was running against someone who embodies - in many peoples minds - the corruption that we've seen in the American political system for decades.

Clinton was seen as the status quo candidate, and this was the wrong year to run on status quo. Voters elected Obama eight years ago. Remember 'Hope and Change'? Well, there wasn't much change. For all his personal charm and popularity, his POLICIES are NOT popular in this country. He ran as a candidate who was going to 'cross the isle'. And then he proceeded to demonize republicans while ramming through major healthcare legislation through obscure processes and without a trace of bi-partisan support. Many feel he worked to gain favor with those who like to see American destroyed while marginalizing and insulting our traditional allies. He ran on transparency and voters saw the same obstructions to transparency we've seen from ever administration of the past forty years. Obama vowed to address the tax code, to simplify it. He didn't even try. As with ALL presidents, one could go on and on listing broken or forgotten promises.

I think many voters went for Trump simply because he MAY succeed in blowing-up at least some of Washington as it as been. Maybe he can end the tethers that lobbyists keep government. Maybe he CAN trash the tax code. Maybe he can jump start this never-ending, anemic "recovery" we've supposedly been experiencing for the past six years. Maybe he can deal with immigration.....illegal immigration is either illegal or it's not, after all. Maybe he will dump NAFTA, which is a disaster. Maybe he'll have the balls to pull out of the Middle East once and for all and leave it to that region to solve. These are things all candidates address from one side or the other but nothing ever changes. Ever. I think most people know that there is no reelection for this guy. But, they want to see how much stuff the ******* can break in four years. And that would be horrible thing if there were not so many things that need breaking.

[Svensson]

Only 43% of the people voted in the US 2016 presidential election! Where did 'We the people' go? Probably went for a Bud or a Coke, quite far away from the generation of heroes!!!

Make me sad, given I was raised in the States.

Hecule Poirot

Aye. Do what the Aussies have been doing for years and introduce compulsory voting like:

A. Candidate 1
B. Candidate 2
C. None of the above

And this should go for any country I think.

[Patrick S]

Aye. Do what the Aussies have been doing for years and introduce compulsory voting like:

A. Candidate 1
B. Candidate 2
C. None of the above

And this should go for any country I think.

I guarantee "none of the above" would have won this election. The issue we have in the states is that the primary process doesn't necessarily identify the best candidate for the general election.

I think that Trump was incorrectly viewed as the most hard-right candidate by the Republicans (Trump is not a "religion" candidate and I think that he'll prove moderate to somewhat liberal on social issues. I think he's pro-life but won't repeal Roe v. Wade (I think his rhetoric on that issue is meant to appease the Christian Right). I believe he will not propose any further "defense of marriage" legislation. I think he'll consider some moderate gun reforms. I think that Ted Cruz is far more socially conservative than Trump. Kasich is more socially conservative. Any bible thumping right-winger can be counted upon to propose all manner of social legislation in the name of Jesus. Trump is fake religious. Most people know that.

On the left, Bernie Sanders, essentially an unapologetic socialist, was the actual preference of democrats. Socialists don't do well in US elections so the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Shultz and Donna Brazile did what they could to, shall we say, meddle with (some might say 'rig') the primaries just enough to give Clinton the nudge she needed (Shultz lot her job as a result, Donna Brazile was feeding questions to Clinton in both the primary and general election debates).

Luckily, I think we're seeing the death of the "two party system" in America. I think that candidates - due to social media and the internet diminishing the importance of broadcast television, radio, print, and the dollars required to get one's message across in those arenas - can reach voters in ways that transcend what we've seen historically. I also think that more people think in ways that place them outside either the democrat or republican bubbles these days.

Using myself as an example. I'm 47 and was raised Catholic but I'm now an atheist. I believe in freedom of religion but believe that religion should play no role in government or the public discourse. I believe in the second amendment but think that some common sense should be applied in processes existing around how one can buy and sell firearms. I also think there are certain types of firearms the general public doesn't need to get their hands on.

I am not bothered by same sex marriage in the least. I find the idea of abortion abhorrent but I don't think it's my place to tell anyone what they should do or how they should think. I think climate change has become a highly politicized pseudo-religion, but I also think we should do whatever we can to protect the environment, decrease pollution and respect the planet. I think every policeman should be required to wear a body camera. I think that we should institute a national program in this country to teach police officers the concept of protect and SERVE.

But, I also I also get pissed when I hear people say things like "pay your fair share". I've been successful and fortunate enough to earn enough money to put me in the income range that's always targeted by democrats as those not "paying their fair share". Alas, as a former defense contractor (as well as an IT contractor for several, disparate branches of government), I know of the immense lack of accountability and oversight that goes into how government at ALL LEVELS wastes taxpayer money. The tax code is so absurd that the IRS exists to a great degree just to manage it. I believe government should be small, stay out of our lives to the greatest extent possible, and be accountable for the money we pay for it's operation. I am in favor of education reform WHILE decreasing funding for education. I have seen first hand the immense waste in education. And I've seen common sense, low/no cost solutions ignored due to obstructionism by teachers unions and lobbyists. I believe it's vital that US defense be kept strong while scrutinizing defense spending. I think that - these days - one of the government's primary jobs should be to keep American civilians from being killed. I also believe that less money should be spent on entitlements and more money should be spent on infrastructure improvements like roads, airports, etc. I'd like to see an effort to decrease the amount of travel Americans do by car. I'd welcome an intelligent, high-speed rail system. I'm in favor of term limits for all elected officials. I also think we should elect Jesus freaks, atheists, *******s, the pathologically nice, woman, men, blacks, whites, Hispanic-Americans, Asian-Americans, fat people, skinny people, gays, straights, provided they are two things: honest and effective. I think identity politics are absurd. It's NEVER "time" to elect a woman or homosexual or a minority. It is ALWAYS "time" to elect the person best suited for the job.

Long post, but I hope it's insightful to those outside the US. I think I'm like a lot of people in America, for better or worse.

[ChrisGeorge]

"For refugees and advocates, an anxious wait for clarity on Trump's policy" by Deborah Amos, National Public Radio, Nov 15, 2016

http://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/11/15/npr-refugees-advocates-anxious-wait-clarity-trump-policy

[jason_c]

I guarantee "none of the above" would have won this election. The issue we have in the states is that the primary process doesn't necessarily identify the best candidate for the general election.

I think that Trump was incorrectly viewed as the most hard-right candidate by the Republicans (Trump is not a "religion" candidate and I think that he'll prove moderate to somewhat liberal on social issues. I think he's pro-life but won't repeal Roe v. Wade (I think his rhetoric on that issue is meant to appease the Christian Right). I believe he will not propose any further "defense of marriage" legislation. I think he'll consider some moderate gun reforms. I think that Ted Cruz is far more socially conservative than Trump. Kasich is more socially conservative. Any bible thumping right-winger can be counted upon to propose all manner of social legislation in the name of Jesus. Trump is fake religious. Most people know that.

On the left, Bernie Sanders, essentially an unapologetic socialist, was the actual preference of democrats. Socialists don't do well in US elections so the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Shultz and Donna Brazile did what they could to, shall we say, meddle with (some might say 'rig') the primaries just enough to give Clinton the nudge she needed (Shultz lot her job as a result, Donna Brazile was feeding questions to Clinton in both the primary and general election debates).

Luckily, I think we're seeing the death of the "two party system" in America. I think that candidates - due to social media and the internet diminishing the importance of broadcast television, radio, print, and the dollars required to get one's message across in those arenas - can reach voters in ways that transcend what we've seen historically. I also think that more people think in ways that place them outside either the democrat or republican bubbles these days.

Using myself as an example. I'm 47 and was raised Catholic but I'm now an atheist. I believe in freedom of religion but believe that religion should play no role in government or the public discourse. I believe in the second amendment but think that some common sense should be applied in processes existing around how one can buy and sell firearms. I also think there are certain types of firearms the general public doesn't need to get their hands on.

I am not bothered by same sex marriage in the least. I find the idea of abortion abhorrent but I don't think it's my place to tell anyone what they should do or how they should think. I think climate change has become a highly politicized pseudo-religion, but I also think we should do whatever we can to protect the environment, decrease pollution and respect the planet. I think every policeman should be required to wear a body camera. I think that we should institute a national program in this country to teach police officers the concept of protect and SERVE.

But, I also I also get pissed when I hear people say things like "pay your fair share". I've been successful and fortunate enough to earn enough money to put me in the income range that's always targeted by democrats as those not "paying their fair share". Alas, as a former defense contractor (as well as an IT contractor for several, disparate branches of government), I know of the immense lack of accountability and oversight that goes into how government at ALL LEVELS wastes taxpayer money. The tax code is so absurd that the IRS exists to a great degree just to manage it. I believe government should be small, stay out of our lives to the greatest extent possible, and be accountable for the money we pay for it's operation. I am in favor of education reform WHILE decreasing funding for education. I have seen first hand the immense waste in education. And I've seen common sense, low/no cost solutions ignored due to obstructionism by teachers unions and lobbyists. I believe it's vital that US defense be kept strong while scrutinizing defense spending. I think that - these days - one of the government's primary jobs should be to keep American civilians from being killed. I also believe that less money should be spent on entitlements and more money should be spent on infrastructure improvements like roads, airports, etc. I'd like to see an effort to decrease the amount of travel Americans do by car. I'd welcome an intelligent, high-speed rail system. I'm in favor of term limits for all elected officials. I also think we should elect Jesus freaks, atheists, *******s, the pathologically nice, woman, men, blacks, whites, Hispanic-Americans, Asian-Americans, fat people, skinny people, gays, straights, provided they are two things: honest and effective. I think identity politics are absurd. It's NEVER "time" to elect a woman or homosexual or a minority. It is ALWAYS "time" to elect the person best suited for the job.

Long post, but I hope it's insightful to those outside the US. I think I'm like a lot of people in America, for better or worse.

I enjoyed this post. I agree with much of it. Your post also confirms my belief in the future political make-up of America. For years we have been told that demographic changes will ensure a permanent Democrat Party majority in future years. Plus, youngsters are more socially liberal; this will all show itself in future political and electoral models. All this is true. However, it's my opinion that the bill for the build up America's Federal debt is about to become due. Most American's are relatively liberal on social issues but the silent majority will not put up with being taxed extra for liberal policies and big spending; big spending that has been financed until now with huge debt. Well, this debt is about to produce it's consequences.

[Patrick S]

[/B]
I enjoyed this post. I agree with much of it. Your post also confirms my belief in the future political make-up of America. For years we have been told that demographic changes will ensure a permanent Democrat Party majority in future years. Plus, youngsters are more socially liberal; this will all show itself in future political and electoral models. All this is true. However, it's my opinion that the bill for the build up America's Federal debt is about to become due. Most American's are relatively liberal on social issues but the silent majority will not put up with being taxed extra for liberal policies and big spending; big spending that has been financed until now with huge debt. Well, this debt is about to produce it's consequences.

Exactly correct.

[sdreid]

Liberal youth become conservative as they get older and are working for a living so the idea that the conservatives will die off leaving only liberals in charge doesn't work. If it did work then the tens of millions of liberal youth in the 60s, 70s and 80s would have voted in Clinton in landslide proportions.

[caz]

Now let's discuss something really important. The woman (broad) obviously never wears stockings and suspenders (garter belt) away from the cameras - either when visiting the lavatory (bathroom), or having a bit of "how's yer father" (I don't know the American term for that) - or she'd have found out why knickers (panties) need to go on over, not under them.

I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked.

Love,

Caz
X

[GUT]

Now let's discuss something really important. The woman (broad) obviously never wears stockings and suspenders (garter belt) away from the cameras - either when visiting the lavatory (bathroom), or having a bit of "how's yer father" (I don't know the American term for that) - or she'd have found out why knickers (panties) need to go on over, not under them.

I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked.

Love,

Caz
X

Had the same thought.

[GUT]

Aye. Do what the Aussies have been doing for years and introduce compulsory voting like:

A. Candidate 1
B. Candidate 2
C. None of the above

And this should go for any country I think.

Yep be good to have "c" as an option.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Agreed. To be fair the consensus seems to be that everyone is stupid....and racist...and homophobic, Islamaphobic, sexist, anti-puppies, anti-cold beer, and anti-Oprah.

I think most people can agree that Donald Trump is boorish, rude, vain, arrogant, and probably not a really wonderful guy. I can't say any of that for certain because - and I have to be honest here - I don't actually know him. But he is NOT something that I think worked for him in spite of everything else: He is not a politician. And he was running against someone who embodies - in many peoples minds - the corruption that we've seen in the American political system for decades.

Clinton was seen as the status quo candidate, and this was the wrong year to run on status quo. Voters elected Obama eight years ago. Remember 'Hope and Change'? Well, there wasn't much change. For all his personal charm and popularity, his POLICIES are NOT popular in this country. He ran as a candidate who was going to 'cross the isle'. And then he proceeded to demonize republicans while ramming through major healthcare legislation through obscure processes and without a trace of bi-partisan support. Many feel he worked to gain favor with those who like to see American destroyed while marginalizing and insulting our traditional allies. He ran on transparency and voters saw the same obstructions to transparency we've seen from ever administration of the past forty years. Obama vowed to address the tax code, to simplify it. He didn't even try. As with ALL presidents, one could go on and on listing broken or forgotten promises.

I think many voters went for Trump simply because he MAY succeed in blowing-up at least some of Washington as it as been. Maybe he can end the tethers that lobbyists keep government. Maybe he CAN trash the tax code. Maybe he can jump start this never-ending, anemic "recovery" we've supposedly been experiencing for the past six years. Maybe he can deal with immigration.....illegal immigration is either illegal or it's not, after all. Maybe he will dump NAFTA, which is a disaster. Maybe he'll have the balls to pull out of the Middle East once and for all and leave it to that region to solve. These are things all candidates address from one side or the other but nothing ever changes. Ever. I think most people know that there is no reelection for this guy. But, they want to see how much stuff the ******* can break in four years. And that would be horrible thing if there were not so many things that need breaking.

I would agree. Our politics are probably not too dissimilar in that:

Don't invade sovereign nations, democracy is organic. Spend the money on research and development, home grown products, your own people, that sort of thing. Protect your nation's values, because they have served you well, while respecting everyone in your country no matter their background.

I can put my hand on my heart and say I'm the sort of person who would sit at a bar and in the event a transvestite walked in I would have a chat with him/her providing that person had something interesting to say. And, I wouldn't care what anyone else thought about it.

Yet, at the same time, it is right to keep a close eye on the people entering your country. Not because I instinctively feel that people are dangerous, in fact it's the opposite, I instinctively feel that people want to live in harmony, but I do feel that values are important and people coming to our country should adopt English values. Because, this is our country, and we have sound values.

Anyone can be an Englishman. They don't need to have been born here, they simply need to behave in a certain manner. Blood has never been important to us, unlike say Germany where a Turk can live there for 10 years and struggle to become a German citizen through the bureaucratic process.

Here, and rightly so, it's not blood that matters, or where you were born; it's the person you are or want to become. And, that really matters.

I'm probably more liberal than you, as at heart I'm a died-in-the wool liberal, but what is wrong with Trump saying we need to guard American values?

That is how ridiculous this world has become. He's an advocate of the United States and her tradition, and because of that he somehow hates everyone.

I would not vote for him because I'm not socially conservative, but I would have voted for anyone over Hillary with her career politician manner.

And, the biggest threat to our way of life, 'our' being the English, is not Islam, nor terrorism; the biggest threat is the continental European way of life with their absolute bollocks - and a good part of that is that they are believable to an extent but peel back the layers and they're dangerous people who really believe their own hype. They'd centralise oxygen and fish given the chance.

[sdreid]

Now let's discuss something really important. The woman (broad) obviously never wears stockings and suspenders (garter belt) away from the cameras - either when visiting the lavatory (bathroom), or having a bit of "how's yer father" (I don't know the American term for that) - or she'd have found out why knickers (panties) need to go on over, not under them.

I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked.

Love,

Caz
X

I didn't want to sound like a dog Caz but I had exactly the same thought the first minute I saw that picture. In the real world, the panties go on last (and come off first ).