The Force Awakens

[Abby Normal]

Actually he didn't. And it's good that he didn't, it's why his books are insanely popular and the bedrock of all fantasy as we know it. It provided a basic structure for others to build on, but wasn't too specific. We have no idea how magic works in the Tolkein universe, we have to just either accept that it does, or try to come up with a set of rules. The rules of the Force are very clear, set out in books, films, role playing games... it works a certain way and not certain others ways and we know why it works the way it does and not in other ways.

Tolkein created a mythology similar to vampire mythology today. It's not a whole pantheon of myths, but it's enough to get our engines revving. Whereas if you have a question about Star Wars, you can actually look it up. Want to know why the Jedi don't Force choke? Want to know the average top speed of Luke's landspeeder? Want to know what race Yoda is? It's all there for the person who owns the appropriate text. It's fully formed. Locked in. Akin to Greek religion and mythology in it's depth and scope.

Tolkein can grow. And does. Star Wars cannot, or at least cannot do it easily. Thus the failure of the first three movies.

Sorry Eratta
but you are simply wrong. Tolkien created whole speakable languages, detailed histories and folklore for his races of people and a even a "bible" for his world-The Silmarrillian.

If that's not a complete mythology I don't know what is. Its far more comprehensive, detailed and COMPLETED than StarWars is-which by the way contrary to what you say is not completed and is still "growing" evidenced by all the new movies and stuff that is coming out.

[Errata]

Sorry Eratta
but you are simply wrong. Tolkien created whole speakable languages, detailed histories and folklore for his races of people and a even a "bible" for his world-The Silmarrillian.

If that's not a complete mythology I don't know what is. Its far more comprehensive, detailed and COMPLETED than StarWars is-which by the way contrary to what you say is not completed and is still "growing" evidenced by all the new movies and stuff that is coming out.

I think that the term "complete" sounds like "better than". It's not. Tolkien is the grandfather of just about everything I love, including to some extent Star Wars. But while certainly excruciatingly detailed, it is not complete. It's not done. The Tolkien universe is like our own. It exploded into being with the building blocks of everything we would ever need, but the stories are left to be written by us. And have been. From Tolkien we get not only his works, but the Dragonlance series, the Shannara series, Dungeons and Dragons, even Warcraft. And there are so many other stories that can and will come from that big bang. Star Wars is like an aquarium. It's complete. The story of the original trilogy was nigh perfect. and within 20 years and the expanded universe sets, there were very few questions left. And very little left to learn. And it doesn't expand the way Tolkien's work does. It was a beautiful fish tank, that very little could be added to without mucking it up. And episodes 1,2, and 3 did muck it up. And the new one, while not necessarily destroying the balance also didn't particularly further the story. It's a set up, an introduction to the real additions that are yet to come, and who knows if they will fit in this little bubble that already is complete.

It's like a Greek myth. What myth could you make up, what could you add that isn't already there? What is left to explain? What stories are left to tell? None. It's complete. Nothing left to say. The fact that Hollywood can't resist a sequel is not an indication that there is something left to say, or that they have the ability to say it. Maybe this trilogy will be wonderful, maybe it will be benign. It might end up sucking. But the universe isn't expanding, so they are shoehorning in on an already stocked aquarium. More isn't necessarily growth, especially if the tank isn't getting bigger. It's like overfilling a balloon. You have some give, but not a lot. And there is very little "more" Star Wars can take. It's at it's heart a story about maybe a dozen people. Not the universe they live in. Once those people die, the story dies. Like Beowulf. Like King Arthur. And that's fine. But Tolkien is more than his characters. His is a universe. And it grows.

Star Wars is complete the way Beowulf is complete. But Star Wars is also massively detailed and entrenched in modern culture, making it a complete mythology. Tolkien might be complete someday, but I hope not within my lifetime. It's not a page I'm ready to turn.

[Beowulf]

I'm afraid I'm a bit the same.

Though the Snoopy movie may tempt me, specially if he finally gets that Bloody Red Baron From Germany.

I'm think that is the one movie out there I may go see.

I won't go see the Star Wars movie, first three is all I could do. They were good but heck, it's pretty much done for me.

I might go see the Snoopy movie, the only movie out there I am interested in.

Funny thing my brother, who likes more realistic films said years ago of Star Wars:

"I mean, c'mon. You've got a gorilla manning the ship!"

As far as sci-fi, he's not a fan. He also made a pretty good joke about Star Trek the next Generation.

"You mean waaaay in the future they still haven't found a cure for baldness?"

[Stephen Lee]

We were talking about this film at work tonight as someone had gone to see it. He thought it was a remake of the first, nothing more.

Someone else who is a Star wars fan, or used to be before the prequals said. George Lucas is Ed Wood with lots of money. Hard to argue with that when you watch the films he directed. (except A New Hope of course).

Made me chuckle anyway.

[Patrick S]

We were talking about this film at work tonight as someone had gone to see it. He thought it was a remake of the first, nothing more.

Someone else who is a Star wars fan, or used to be before the prequals said. George Lucas is Ed Wood with lots of money. Hard to argue with that when you watch the films he directed. (except A New Hope of course).

Made me chuckle anyway.

Ed Wood with money. That's right on. I'm going to pretend I made it up.

[kensei]

I've been a Star Wars fan since the age of 9 when the first one came out and I have liked them all, but not loved them all, and I admit they are far from all being of equal quality. Like many, I find Empire Strikes Back to be the best of the lot to this day and I agree that the prequels were not what they should have been, but I don't hate them like a lot of people do. Phantom Menace was interesting in many ways and left me wanting more when it came to Darth Maul. What was his origin story? He was a compelling character and then he was chopped in half and dropped down a pit and forgotten. Attack of the Clones was a hot mess to be sure, confusing and way too overburdened, but it did feature Anakin's first step toward the dark side and first act of murder when he slaughtered the Sandpeople. Then when it comes to Revenge of the Sith, I love that film. I think it's epic and I've seen it make people cry and I've been one of them. It features what is without question the single most horrible act ever perpetrated in a Star Wars movie, and that includes the destruction of whole planets-- I'm talking about Anakin/Vader slaughtering the younglings.

I love how this discussion of The Force Awakens has almost completely avoided spoilers. Most of my thoughts on it would have to forego that route. Anyone mind if we talk about individual events in the film? For now I'll just say that I think any complaints about how the original cast members look now is silly. They are the same ages as their characters would be, and they look the way they look. People age, it's a fact of life, so get used to it. I am however a little curious when it comes to Peter Mayhew, the actor who plays Chewbacca, since he needs a cane to walk these days so I wonder if there were some kind of braces built into the costume for him in this film. A character like that could have easily been recast, but they kept him, and I think that shows real class.

[Steadmund Brand]

They had 2 people playing Chewie.....Peter was in all the Falcon scenes...and someone else in the "action" scenes....I have no problem with that...i like that they had the respect to have Peter, as limited as he is in his movement's, still there...touch of class

Steadmund Brand

[Patrick S]

I've been a Star Wars fan since the age of 9 when the first one came out and I have liked them all, but not loved them all, and I admit they are far from all being of equal quality. Like many, I find Empire Strikes Back to be the best of the lot to this day and I agree that the prequels were not what they should have been, but I don't hate them like a lot of people do. Phantom Menace was interesting in many ways and left me wanting more when it came to Darth Maul. What was his origin story? He was a compelling character and then he was chopped in half and dropped down a pit and forgotten. Attack of the Clones was a hot mess to be sure, confusing and way too overburdened, but it did feature Anakin's first step toward the dark side and first act of murder when he slaughtered the Sandpeople. Then when it comes to Revenge of the Sith, I love that film. I think it's epic and I've seen it make people cry and I've been one of them. It features what is without question the single most horrible act ever perpetrated in a Star Wars movie, and that includes the destruction of whole planets-- I'm talking about Anakin/Vader slaughtering the younglings.

I love how this discussion of The Force Awakens has almost completely avoided spoilers. Most of my thoughts on it would have to forego that route. Anyone mind if we talk about individual events in the film? For now I'll just say that I think any complaints about how the original cast members look now is silly. They are the same ages as their characters would be, and they look the way they look. People age, it's a fact of life, so get used to it. I am however a little curious when it comes to Peter Mayhew, the actor who plays Chewbacca, since he needs a cane to walk these days so I wonder if there were some kind of braces built into the costume for him in this film. A character like that could have easily been recast, but they kept him, and I think that shows real class.

Hi, kensei. I didn't have a problem with the ages, per se. I just had a bit of trouble with what they had Harrison Ford doing. He doesn't make a great action star these these days, at 70-whatever.

Interesting footnote. I asked my 11 year old if he told his buddies at school that he didn't like Star Wars. He said, "No one liked Star Wars." As with most conversations with 11 year olds it was hard to get him to lucidly elaborate. He said, "Everyone thought it was stupid. They got bored."

[kensei]

Hi, kensei. I didn't have a problem with the ages, per se. I just had a bit of trouble with what they had Harrison Ford doing. He doesn't make a great action star these these days, at 70-whatever.

I think he makes quite a good action star in real life, surviving and recovering from the crash landing of a plane recently that experts said was a remarkable piece of piloting.

[kensei]

They had 2 people playing Chewie.....Peter was in all the Falcon scenes...and someone else in the "action" scenes....I have no problem with that...i like that they had the respect to have Peter, as limited as he is in his movement's, still there...touch of class

Steadmund Brand

Thanks for pointing that out about Peter, I had been wondering about it for a long time.