The Phantom Punch?

[Robert St Devil]

Nine done. Cotto'll be pissing blood tomorrow.

[Robert St Devil]

Nelo tore Cotto up in he 12th. New welter weight champ. One sided fight, UD. Cotto - brave fight but Nelo too strong.

Next week.: Wlasimir Klitchko vs Tyson Fury

[Errata]

Possibly Ali hit Liston hard enough to knock him down but not out. Maybe Liston, with his bell rung, decided to lay down and collect the cash. It all paid the same after all.

It's no wonder Liston went down, he overextended his punch and was way off center when he got hit. He couldn't possibly regain his balance, so he was going to hit the mat. It's really the perfect hit to take a dive off of. Or the perfect hit to knockout a better opponent. It just depends on how hard the hit was.

[Steadmund Brand]

Ali vs Marciano...at any point in their careers Clay/Ali....the young Clay was far to fast and big for Rocky....people forget how big he is /was...I'm a big man (6-5) and when I stood next to Ali I was shocked by his size....and the 2nd version ....the post suspension Ali was again...to big and by this time to smart to lose to Marciano....any man who could have fought the way he did in the 3rd Frazier fight would not lose to a smallish..albeit tough guy like the Rock....now Liston v Marciano would have been a war!!!!

As far as the phantom punch.....funny I was once on a panel discussion where this was one of the topics...and I'll say here what I did then....the punch DID knock him down...no doubt...but that HORRIBLE acting job Liston did after....rolling around like he was shot....was the dive....I think...and this is just my opinion is....he came out..got caught with that shot and thought....ok I know now I can't beat this kid.....how can I get out of this quick...don't forget he QUIT in the first fight too...after he knew he couldn't win....List on was a great fighter...bust his story is a sad one....anyway RIP champ

Steadmund Brand

[Robert]

I think the young dancing Ali would have beaten just about anyone, but Marciano would at least have had a chance. The reason I say this is because Cooper caught him with a left hook right at the end of a round.

[Harry D]

Marciano by late ko.

Not a chance. In his prime, Ali went toe-to-toe with some of the hardest hitters around (Foreman, Liston, Shavers) and was never KO'ed.

[barnflatwyngarde]

Ali vs Marciano...at any point in their careers Clay/Ali....the young Clay was far to fast and big for Rocky....people forget how big he is /was...I'm a big man (6-5) and when I stood next to Ali I was shocked by his size....and the 2nd version ....the post suspension Ali was again...to big and by this time to smart to lose to Marciano....any man who could have fought the way he did in the 3rd Frazier fight would not lose to a smallish..albeit tough guy like the Rock....now Liston v Marciano would have been a war!!!!

As far as the phantom punch.....funny I was once on a panel discussion where this was one of the topics...and I'll say here what I did then....the punch DID knock him down...no doubt...but that HORRIBLE acting job Liston did after....rolling around like he was shot....was the dive....I think...and this is just my opinion is....he came out..got caught with that shot and thought....ok I know now I can't beat this kid.....how can I get out of this quick...don't forget he QUIT in the first fight too...after he knew he couldn't win....List on was a great fighter...bust his story is a sad one....anyway RIP champ

Steadmund Brand

"the young Clay was far to fast and big for Rocky....people forget how big he is /was...I'm a big man (6-5) and when I stood next to Ali I was shocked by his size..."

Absolutely Steadman!

I was lucky enough to see Ali when he was in Glasgow for a book signing.
I was amazed at the sheer physicality of the man, and remember that he was long retired by this time.

He was huge, but beautifully proportioned, God only knows how he must have looked in real life during his prime.

[GUT]

Ali vs Marciano...at any point in their careers Clay/Ali....the young Clay was far to fast and big for Rocky....people forget how big he is /was...I'm a big man (6-5) and when I stood next to Ali I was shocked by his size....and the 2nd version ....the post suspension Ali was again...to big and by this time to smart to lose to Marciano....any man who could have fought the way he did in the 3rd Frazier fight would not lose to a smallish..albeit tough guy like the Rock....now Liston v Marciano would have been a war!!!!

As far as the phantom punch.....funny I was once on a panel discussion where this was one of the topics...and I'll say here what I did then....the punch DID knock him down...no doubt...but that HORRIBLE acting job Liston did after....rolling around like he was shot....was the dive....I think...and this is just my opinion is....he came out..got caught with that shot and thought....ok I know now I can't beat this kid.....how can I get out of this quick...don't forget he QUIT in the first fight too...after he knew he couldn't win....List on was a great fighter...bust his story is a sad one....anyway RIP champ

Steadmund Brand

Yep to all three points.

Young Clay/Ali just too fast, to big too strong

Ali mark 2 too strong too smart in addition to Frazier never forget "Rope a Dope" I know I won't.

And poor old Sonny never saw it coming and when it did he knew he was in big trouble.

[GUT]

Not a chance. In his prime, Ali went toe-to-toe with some of the hardest hitters around (Foreman, Liston, Shavers) and was never KO'ed.

Forman, in my opinion, was probably the biggest punching Champion ever, Ali took everything big George had for eight rounds and George didn't have any more. Even if the ropes were loose George got him with some good ones Ali just let him punch himself out.

[GUT]

On his siz six foot two or three (depends who you believe) and at his best fighting weight about 235 lb.

That'll do me for big, I played Rugby League (and a little Union) at Grade level for years (was only a hack not any sort of superstar) and it was a rare evenT when I wasn't the biggest on the field, well at my playing weight Ali was bigger than me

[Steadmund Brand]

And the 6'2 or 6'3 they list Ali at was wrong...I believe they listede him shorter than he was ( in the same way the list basketball players taller) remember.. they say Foreman is 6'3 or 6'4 and if you remember them in the stare down Ali was the taller man!!!

Speaking of tall fighters.. the tallest light heavyweight I ever had the pleasure of knowing was the great Bob Foster, who sadly just passed away...Foster is more remembered for the fights he lost ( at Heavyweight) but as a light heavyweight he was one of the best ever... and he was a kind and gentle man, and I am proud to be able to say I knew him....and I miss him.. RIP Champ... you will be missed!!!

Steadmund Brand

[GUT]

And the 6'2 or 6'3 they list Ali at was wrong...I believe they listede him shorter than he was ( in the same way the list basketball players taller) remember.. they say Foreman is 6'3 or 6'4 and if you remember them in the stare down Ali was the taller man!!!

Speaking of tall fighters.. the tallest light heavyweight I ever had the pleasure of knowing was the great Bob Foster, who sadly just passed away...Foster is more remembered for the fights he lost ( at Heavyweight) but as a light heavyweight he was one of the best ever... and he was a kind and gentle man, and I am proud to be able to say I knew him....and I miss him.. RIP Champ... you will be missed!!!

Steadmund Brand

Was Foster the one near on seven foot.

The quoted heights are always iffy, the seem to quote some high and some low.

I never met Ali (funny that) but Madame Tausauds had a model, said to be correct size and in a boxing crouch he was as tall as me, at the time I was about 6'2" and a half.