Clerk Who Won't Issue Marriage License to Gay Couples Has Been Married 4 Times

[Shaggyrand]

Impeachment is possible but the State Senate would have to convine a special assembly, bring impeachable charges against her and try her in the Senate. They've have already declined a special assembly claiming it would cost too much. Unless they start getting heavy pressure from the Feds or somewhere, I don't think it'll happen.

[RivkahChaya]

Kentucky doesn't have any recall procedures at all. So still the only ways to get rid of her is end of term or resignation.

There's probably a way to remove her from office if she's found guilty of a crime, so impeachment might be an option, but I don't know what crime she's committed other than not doing her job, and apparently she's already been jailed on contempt charges for that. I think what would have to happen (OK, I don't know what would have to happen in Kentucky, but what would have to happen in most states) is that a judge would have to order her to issue the marriage licenses, and then she would have to defy the order.

I'm sure if she were facing impeachment charges that she was unlikely to overcome, she'd do what most people do, and resign before she could be found guilty. Since impeachment is reserved for office-holders, once she resigns the office, no impeachment.

[Shaggyrand]

Kentucky doesn't have any recall procedures at all. So still the only ways to get rid of her is end of term or resignation.

[Pcdunn]

Apologies, Hunter-- c.d is correct. I have been reading about both cases in two forums and apparently jumbled the states. Sorry!

[c.d.]

What does the state of Tennessee have to do with this?

Nothing. The clerk is from Kentucky. I think people are thinking of the other thread where the judge will not grant a divorce to a heterosexual couple because of gay marriage. That judge is from Tennessee. Hence the confusion.

c.d.

[Hunter]

What does the state of Tennessee have to do with this?

[Shaggyrand]

The State of Tennessee needs to hold another election to replace this county clerk, which may be seen as too expensive and probably unpopular, so perhaps they are hoping it will blow over. I doubt it will-- certain fundamentalist Christians have been wanting to take on the government for some time now, and she offers a great opportunity for doing so, I suppose they think.

Tennessee doesn't have recall legislation in place for most elected posts. Only Board of Education and, I think, city council. So elected clerks, mayors, governors, sheriffs, whoever can't be removed until their term is done or they resign.

[RivkahChaya]

Sorry. I knew she wasn't a judge, but she was an elected official (slip of the fingers, and I missed the edit window), and everything you say is right. It might be possible to replace her by a special election of just whatever delegates the region has, or for the mayor to appoint an interim clerk (my uncle was a precinct committeeman, usually a thankless job, and once got to vote in a special election to replace the mayor, who had won a congressional seat). But yeah, generally any elected official has to be found guilty of a crime to be removed-- or for the election to be found fraudulent, unless there is a process for removing the person by referendum, and even then, the county must wait until the next election, and if that election happens to be for clerk anyway, it's just in two more months, probably.

It's not that uncommon for a Supreme Court decision to strike down state and local laws, so this is nothing new. Row v. Wade struck down all sorts of very prohibitive and state laws prohibiting abortion. Loving vs. Virginia struck down the last of the US's miscegenation laws (just as recently as the 1960s, ugh).

[Pcdunn]

Since she's a judge, she probably has to be impeached and found guilty before she can be removed from office. You can't just fire a judge.

She is an elected official, but she is not a judge. The impeachment requirement is true, from what I've read elsewhere. It is all complicated by the fact that her state had passed a law defining marriage as between one man and one woman only.
The Supreme Court of the U.S. has ruled this law and others like it in other states of the Union are unconstitutional, as they go against protecting the civil rights of citizens.

The State of Tennessee needs to hold another election to replace this county clerk, which may be seen as too expensive and probably unpopular, so perhaps they are hoping it will blow over. I doubt it will-- certain fundamentalist Christians have been wanting to take on the government for some time now, and she offers a great opportunity for doing so, I suppose they think.

[RivkahChaya]

I bet she resumes being obstinate and disobeys the orders again

I am very puzzled here. If someone refuses to do their job, they're fired, aren't they? Why is she still there?

Since she's a judge, she probably has to be impeached and found guilty before she can be removed from office. You can't just fire a judge.

[Robert]

I bet she resumes being obstinate and disobeys the orders again

I am very puzzled here. If someone refuses to do their job, they're fired, aren't they? Why is she still there?

[GUT]

I bet she resumes being obstinate and disobeys the orders again. She has the mantle of martyrdom for her faith on her, and the adulation and support of these yahoos who believe earth is the real center of the universe, man was not descended from apes, and God actually wrote the Bible (Old Testament) through such instruments as Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc. She can afford to return to the prison again.

Besides, if she does follow the judge's order she can be labelled a hypocrite by those same yahoos. I don't think she wants to be.

Jeff

Unfortunately whichever way she chooses to go some will label her a hypocrite.

[Mayerling]

No, that was great! You have fascinating stories, Errata! Patch Adams would have approved of your hospital's take on humor, certainly.

Re the clerk Kim Davis, the judge released her with orders not to disobey the law about issuing marriage licenses, nor to interfere in them being issued by others in her office (previously she'd told her deputies not to give out licenses to same sex couples, as well). At least one deputy has promised to continue issuing them even if she says otherwise (which is a honorable move on his part, if you ask me), so it remains to be seen what will happen now.

I bet she resumes being obstinate and disobeys the orders again. She has the mantle of martyrdom for her faith on her, and the adulation and support of these yahoos who believe earth is the real center of the universe, man was not descended from apes, and God actually wrote the Bible (Old Testament) through such instruments as Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc. She can afford to return to the prison again.

Besides, if she does follow the judge's order she can be labelled a hypocrite by those same yahoos. I don't think she wants to be.

Jeff

[Pcdunn]

Well that's all just breathtakingly off topic. I apologize.

No, that was great! You have fascinating stories, Errata! Patch Adams would have approved of your hospital's take on humor, certainly.

Re the clerk Kim Davis, the judge released her with orders not to disobey the law about issuing marriage licenses, nor to interfere in them being issued by others in her office (previously she'd told her deputies not to give out licenses to same sex couples, as well). At least one deputy has promised to continue issuing them even if she says otherwise (which is a honorable move on his part, if you ask me), so it remains to be seen what will happen now.

[Mayerling]

No offence was meant by any means (especially being born Half Jewish) but then again... it doesn't apply to Jews as it is him talking to "Christians" using his name.....everyone else would be left alone....

reminds me of an Old Comedy album called " You Don't Have to be Jewish " from the 1960's....there is a skit where a Jewish man goes to heaven and get's to speak to God, and he asks, " are we the chosen people?" God tells him yes, they are the chosen ones... to which he replies " well then would you mind chosing someone else for once???" ...great album.. I believe Lou Jacobi was the man in that skit.

Steadmund Brand

I remember that album. Jack Gilford was also in it.

That view about the limits of Supreme Court opinions is as old as 1832. That year the Court upheld the claims of the Cherokee Indians to huge tracts of lands in Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Tennessee, that had been illegally seized and sold by state governments (especially in Georgia). Andrew Jackson, supposedly a huge nationalist, should have approved of this triumph over state powers, but he hated Indians. He is reputed to have said, "John Marshall has given his opinion. Now let him enforce it!" The decision was never enforced, and soon the Cherokees and other tribes on the eastern side of the Mississippi River were forced to move to the western side (with thousands of dead as a result) along what became known as "the trail of tears".

Jeff