30 Things British People Say Vs What We Actually Mean.

[Mayerling]

Maybe my comment wasn't too sincere, either.....

Graham

My favorite politician's comment at any meeting - spoken with that sincerity you have just mentioned: "And I'm here to help you!!"

[Graham]

Maybe my comment wasn't too sincere, either.....

Graham

[Robert]

Graham, I think you'll probably find that it was the pristine teeth that gave that impression.

[Fleetwood Mac]

What put me off about many American businessmen I met was their totally insincere smiles. May have fooled their compatriots, but didn't fool me.

Graham

I'd imagine Americans are as capable as anyone else of determining when someone is being sincere.

If you read accounts of English people when the GIs were over during WW2, they held a certain perception of Americans due to watching films, but what they found was simple folk from small towns. They were generous and well liked, with the exception of the segregation policy they brought with them which saw running battles between white American soldiers and black American soldiers, with the locals giving black American soldiers a hand.

Apart from that, they were liked with no issues over 'sincerity'.

[Robert]

When I was very young, there was a drama series about the Civil War. I remember enjoying it at the time, though it was way over my head. It seems to have been called The Americans but over here I'm sure it was called The Fighting Canfields.

[Robert]

There seem to be two or three versions of 'Lowlands.' In one, the bereft woman cuts off her hair. In another, she cuts off her breasts!

I did a look online and 'Spanish Ladies' seems to date from the late 18th century, at the time when Spain and Britain were allied against France.

[Graham]

What put me off about many American businessmen I met was their totally insincere smiles. May have fooled their compatriots, but didn't fool me.

Graham

[Graham]

Now you mention it, Graham, I wonder if the song was of Spanish origin.

As in setting sail as part of the Spanish Armada? Could be.

Another old shanty I really love is "Lowlands", and for years I thought this was English and was a reference to the wars with the Dutch. However, not long ago a learned friend told me it was actually American and that the 'Lowlands' in the song was Lousiana.

Graham

[Robert]

Thank you Basil Rathbone.

[Fleetwood Mac]

If I remember correctly, the first verse of 'Spanish Ladies' went:

"Farewell and adieu,
"To you fair Spanish ladies.
"Farewell and adieu,
"To you ladies of Spain.
"For we've received orders to sail for Old England,
"From Ushant to Scilly is thirty-five leagues".

I don't know from what war or historical period this refers to, but the English Channel is certainly alluded to. Re: "Jaws", maybe both British and American sailors sang the same shanties at one time. Many American sailors served in the Royal Navy at Trafalgar, for example. A lot of old sea-shanties have lyrics that in 2015 are virtually untranslatable.

Back on thread - I lived in America for a few years in the 1970's, and one of my work colleagues once told me that when I said "Good morning!" to him, he wasn't sure if, in my British way, I was cordially greeting him or declaring war on him. So I changed that to a grunted "Oh, hiya!" and all was well.

Graham

Bill Bryson, in his memoirs, said something like: I'd only been in England ten minutes and I'd been called love 3 times and mate just as much. It is a typically English thing to think everything has gone to the dogs, a sort of innately conservative attitude that no matter how good we have it, it was better some time ago; and this is nothing to do with a post imperial malaise, it has been the case for centuries.

We take for granted this special country and our unique people. Our obsession with tolerance and decency, and our instinctive attitude that whatever you wish to be you can be that person in England. We are very fortunate to be born in this country. We're a very warm people, who while perhaps cautious at first, make friends for life. This may not sound like much, but some people may be surprised by accounts of foreigners who are taken aback by the loyalty of the English and the depth of friendship with English people.

[Robert]

Now you mention it, Graham, I wonder if the song was of Spanish origin.

[Mayerling]

If I remember correctly, the first verse of 'Spanish Ladies' went:

"Farewell and adieu,
"To you fair Spanish ladies.
"Farewell and adieu,
"To you ladies of Spain.
"For we've received orders to sail for Old England,
"From Ushant to Scilly is thirty-five leagues".

I don't know from what war or historical period this refers to, but the English Channel is certainly alluded to. Re: "Jaws", maybe both British and American sailors sang the same shanties at one time. Many American sailors served in the Royal Navy at Trafalgar, for example. A lot of old sea-shanties have lyrics that in 2015 are virtually untranslatable.

Back on thread - I lived in America for a few years in the 1970's, and one of my work colleagues once told me that when I said "Good morning!" to him, he wasn't sure if, in my British way, I was cordially greeting him or declaring war on him. So I changed that to a grunted "Oh, hiya!" and all was well.

Graham

Hi Graham,

Can't tell when that song lyric was written either. Yeah, Yanks and Brits sailors would share common lyrics on their sea shanties. Their situations would be mostly the same.

I always just said "Hi" in the morning. "Good morning" sounded too formal. Besides, there was always the cynical response from some acquaintance: "Really, what's so good about it?"

Occasionally I'd mumble, "Morning" or more probably incorrectly pronounced, "'Mawning!"

In the afternoon we were told to say "Good afternoon", and at night "Good evening". "The Alfred Hitchcock Show" sort of put a humerous end to saying "Gud Eevening!" to the strains of "Funeral of a Marionette"! It was replaced a little by the softer "Good night." when going home. As for "Good Day", while the original intention was polite and friendly, the statement ended up sounding like a pompous way of ending an unfriendly conversation: 'And a GOOD DAY to you Sir!! Harrumph!!"

Jeff

[Graham]

If I remember correctly, the first verse of 'Spanish Ladies' went:

"Farewell and adieu,
"To you fair Spanish ladies.
"Farewell and adieu,
"To you ladies of Spain.
"For we've received orders to sail for Old England,
"From Ushant to Scilly is thirty-five leagues".

I don't know from what war or historical period this refers to, but the English Channel is certainly alluded to. Re: "Jaws", maybe both British and American sailors sang the same shanties at one time. Many American sailors served in the Royal Navy at Trafalgar, for example. A lot of old sea-shanties have lyrics that in 2015 are virtually untranslatable.

Back on thread - I lived in America for a few years in the 1970's, and one of my work colleagues once told me that when I said "Good morning!" to him, he wasn't sure if, in my British way, I was cordially greeting him or declaring war on him. So I changed that to a grunted "Oh, hiya!" and all was well.

Graham

[Robert]

Hi Jeff

It occurs to me, why was Robert Shaw singing 'Spanish Ladies' in 'Jaws'? I though it was a British song, with references to the English Channel.

I can remember we had to sing 'John Peel' and the discordant sounds on the top note of 'view halloo' would not only have awakened the dead, but sent them scurrying off to a crematorium.

There was one piece of music called, if I remember right, Puffing Billy. I can still remember some of the words :

Oh the grand approach at Euston,
And the hazards that await!
Get your ticket! Get your ticket!
In a fever of excitement show your ticket.
Show your ticket at the gate.

It was about the exciting adventure of travelling on a steam train, which, when it finally gets moving, 'glides demurely forward.' I have not been able to locate it online.

There was also a battery-operated record player for children not quite old enough to have a proper one, and the shops sold special records to play on it - mostly featuring folk songs like Oh Susannah, Early One Morning, Charlie Is My Darling and Polly Wally Doodle etc.

[Mayerling]

Hi Jeff

Re the basketball, I remember as a boy watching the Harlem Globetrotters on TV - only exhibition stuff, but still very entertaining - and so I suppose that when I first saw competitive basketball - in some Olympics or whatever - I was expecting it to be like that. But it was rather a letdown. It wouldn't be so bad if the basket was placed in a difficult position, but it seems to me that the tall guy only has to give a little jump and he can just place the ball in the net.

Re polo, a few years ago Scotland won the World Elephant Polo Championship. Go figure!

During music lessons at school we were sometimes taught and sang folk songs, and some of them were American, e.g. Get Along Little Dogies, Oh Shenandoah, Jimmy Crack Corn etc.

Hi Robert,

We had those folk songs too, with occasional tunes from other sources - even Broadway (The opening song from "Paint Your Wagon" was one, believe it or not: remember I attended grade school from 1960 - 1966). We did learn an occasional sea shanty, "Blow the Man Down", or "Heave Aweigh, Heave Aweigh". Since that time I have learned that many tunes we learned were bowdlerized a bit - although one wasn't because it was too obscure a comment. We learned "In Old New York" from Victor Herbert's early 20th Century hit musical, "The Red Mill". Con Kidder and Kid Connor are singing the song in a tavern in Holland (where the action of the musical was set). We learned the lyrics like this:

"In Old New York, in Old New York, the weather is so fine.
It's clear and fair when you are there, the town of Manhattan for mine!"
You cannot see in gay Paree, in London, or in Cork.
The sights you see on any street in Old New York!"

Harmless enough. About 1994 I finally heard the correct lyrics:

"In Old New York, in Old New York, the ladies are so fine.
They are so fair - around the square.
Those girls of Manhattan for mine!
You cannot see, in gay Paree, in London or in Cork.
The chicks see on any street in Old New York!"

The references in this 1904 ditty were not to regular ladies, as the reference to "the square" suggests they are street walkers. So did the use of the slang term (now a harmless one, but far less so in 1904) "chicks". Ironically, the then harmless (or basically harmless) term "gay Paree" meaning "Paris where one enjoys oneself" now means something far more risqué that even Herbert and his lyricist could have guessed.

The sea shanty "Heave Aweigh" had this subtle bit that escaped the censors, but since it was so old and subtle nobody noticed.

"Capetown girls, they have no combs.
Heave aweigh, heave aweigh!
They comb their hair with codfish bones.
We are bound for Australia!"

See, at first sight it seems that the poor girls at the Cape of Good Hope don't have fancy hair articles like combs, and need to use the bones of dead fish. I told you this was subtle - the shanty probably went back to roughly 1820 or so. In actuality, as I matured and read a bit more about sailors, long trips at sea, and male needs, it dawned on me that the hair that needed combing was not necessarily on top of the girls' heads but was pubic. The "cod fish bones" were probably a euphemism for the penises of sailors.

Jeff