President Joe Biden Drops Out of 2024 Presidential Race

[Wickerman]

...

I think that, given how far apart we are with our opinions, it may be prudent to finish this exchange as I don't wish us to descend into an antagonistic relationship.

Cheers, George

The false charge of genocide is not a mere opinion George, it is proven totally wrong, and without foundation.
It is perhaps just as prudent to refrain from such false accusations which only serve to inflame the situation.

[rjpalmer]

The false charge of genocide is not a mere opinion George, it is proven totally wrong, and without foundation.

Maybe it's only 'without foundation' because the world is watching, and good people like George are raising their voices?

Yesterday, The Times of Israel reported that the Israeli Finance Minister, Bezalel Smotrich, believes that it would be 'moral' and 'justified' to let 2 million Palestinians starve to death, but international pressure doesn't make it a realistic option.

Smotrich: Might be 'justified and moral' to cause 2 million Gazans to die of hunger, but world won't let us | The Times of Israel

[GBinOz]

The false charge of genocide is not a mere opinion George, it is proven totally wrong, and without foundation.
It is perhaps just as prudent to refrain from such false accusations which only serve to inflame the situation.

Hi Jon,

Can we move on from semantics and address the threat to the world that is developing in the middle east. I would hope that we could learn from the past. Escalation is the problem. Perceived provocations escalated the world into the first world war. Hitler's expansionist policy provoked the second world war. Israel's expansionist policy has been tried before, and was shut down by Eisenhower and Reagan with a phone call to the effect - it's over, fix it. The crisis resolved in under an hour. If the US were to say to Netanyahu - resolve this problem or you're on your own, the ridiculous demands from Israel would be reconsidered and withdrawn. As I've said, the little bully is enabled by the backing of the big bully. As with all bullies, when they encounter a fight back from the victims of their attack they run home and cry to mummy.

If this trend escalates into a third world war, this time with nuclear capability, the survivors (if any) won't particularly care to discuss the rights and wrongs of the antagonists.

Cheers, George

[GBinOz]

Maybe it's only 'without foundation' because the world is watching, and good people like George are raising their voices?

Yesterday, The Times of Israel reported that the Israeli Finance Minister, Bezalel Smotrich, believes that it would be 'moral' and 'justified' to let 2 million Palestinians starve to death, but international pressure doesn't make it a realistic option.

Smotrich: Might be 'justified and moral' to cause 2 million Gazans to die of hunger, but world won't let us | The Times of Israel

Hi RJ,

Thank you for your kind remark.

I find myself unable to comprehend the mental processes of Smotrich in putting forward such a proposal. Is it possible that he considers his statement will garnish support from anyone who is not a payed up member of the lunatic fringe? It is a pity that the US is reluctant to accept the judgements of the ICJ, apparently on the basis that that court's opinion should presumably defer to an alternative court to which the US has subscribed some initiation and legitimacy.

While I am a short timer on this planet, my concern for my children and grand-children, and the children and grand-children of all the old timers, regardless of race and religion, on this planet, compels me to continue my role as "serial pest" in my protestation to my government on the support of said dangerous regimes.

Cheers, George

[Wickerman]

Yesterday, The Times of Israel reported that the Israeli Finance Minister, Bezalel Smotrich, believes that it would be 'moral' and 'justified' to let 2 million Palestinians starve to death, but international pressure doesn't make it a realistic option.

I can't speak to that RJ, equally I'm not sure what that irresponsible suggestion by Smotrich has to do with public claims that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, when they are doing quite the opposite.

It must be remembered there are just short of 2 million Palestinians already living in Israel. Living, it must be said, in harmony with the Israeli population. The difference being, they are not under the control of Hamas.
Palestinians can live peacefully with Israel, this is likely the only workable solution to the two-state solution. Have both peoples live in the same territory, but under separate governments.
It would be unique, but likely more acceptable than the present state of affairs.

[Wickerman]

... It is a pity that the US is reluctant to accept the judgements of the ICJ, apparently on the basis that that court's opinion should presumably defer to an alternative court to which the US has subscribed some initiation and legitimacy.

Yes George, but the ICJ has no teeth. Countries can ignore their rulings, which makes a mockery of the whole organization.
Just because the ICJ arrive at a conclusion, does not make it right, and, it is not enforceable - so why have it?

While I am a short timer on this planet, my concern for my children and grand-children, and the children and grand-children of all the old timers, regardless of race and religion, on this planet, compels me to continue my role as "serial pest" in my protestation to my government on the support of said dangerous regimes.

Cheers, George

George, do you not think the unrest across the U.K. comes from the very same sentiments?

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,

Can we move on from semantics and address the threat to the world that is developing in the middle east. I would hope that we could learn from the past.....

I agree, and with the rest of your post, except I can only point out that Israel has been the recipient of Arab provocation since 1948.
They have bent over backwards to accommodate Arab demands, but they will not bow down to oppression, neither should they.

Are you aware of the edict from the terrorist government of Iran that Israel must be destroyed?
You must know that Hamas & Hezbulah are financed by Iran, and act at the behest of Iran.
We know the Muslim world is also at war with itself, Shia Muslims against Sunni Muslims, so cooperating with one country will alienate yourself from the other.
As yet there is no way to reconcile the Arab nations, their deep seated hatred of each other is historical & religious.

Where do you want to start?

[GBinOz]

I agree, and with the rest of your post, except I can only point out that Israel has been the recipient of Arab provocation since 1948.
They have bent over backwards to accommodate Arab demands, but they will not bow down to oppression, neither should they.

Are you aware of the edict from the terrorist government of Iran that Israel must be destroyed?
You must know that Hamas & Hezbulah are financed by Iran, and act at the behest of Iran.
We know the Muslim world is also at war with itself, Shia Muslims against Sunni Muslims, so cooperating with one country will alienate yourself from the other.
As yet there is no way to reconcile the Arab nations, their deep seated hatred of each other is historical & religious.

Where do you want to start?

Hi Jon,

I am aware that Iran has stated that Israel must be destroyed. It is the nature of religious states to be extreme. I am aware of the division in Islam between the Shia and the Sunni, and also recall the division in Christianity between the Catholics and the various Protestant persuasions.

I am ill at present, so not in a position to fully debate these principles, but the following video somewhat expresses my POV, and hints at the hope that Biden may be prepared to calm the growing tensions by reigning in Netanyahu. However, if you rate TYT as a trash media, you may not care to expend the time in viewing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrI40u9xOjk&ab_channel=TheYoungTurks

My fear is that the egos of the leaderships, and religious fervours, will escalate this situation to a no win outcome for all concerned.

Cheers. George

[Svensson]

The false charge of genocide is not a mere opinion George, it is proven totally wrong, and without foundation.
It is perhaps just as prudent to refrain from such false accusations which only serve to inflame the situation.

Wicker, you need to stop lying about the ICC court findings. The left-wing BBC, as you call it, has always reported exactly what the the factcheck on the USAtoday story found at https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67922346

"The false charge of genocide [...], it is proven totally wrong". The ICC ruling did not rule on the charge of genocide. Therefore, it is NOT PROVEN WRONG.
"The false charge of genocide is [...] without foundation". The ICC "concludes on the basis of the above considerations that the conditions required by its Statute for it to indicate provisional measures are met." https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/defaul...d-01-00-en.pdf

And the Measures are "provisional", because the actual genocide investigation is ongoing and according to the BBC report could take several years to conclude.

So the charge genocide is NOT without foundation (otherwise the ICJ would have dismissed the case) and while the investigtion is ongoing CAN NOT have been "proven totally wrong".

You need to stop wilfully misrepresenting (or should i say "lying about"?) the genocide issue.

Cheers.

[Wickerman]

You need to stop wilfully misrepresenting (or should i say "lying about"?) the genocide issue.

Cheers.

An example of my "willful misrepresentation"...



Students repeat genocidal chants against Israel




On its first day, the McMaster encampment, which formed around 2 p.m. ET Sunday, was mostly quiet. Some protesters wrote on the sidewalks in chalk and others helped hang signs and banners that included messages like "no pride in genocide" and "stop arming Israel."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2024/05/02/protests-universities-students-palestine-antisemitism-extremists/73525814007/

And, they claim they have "official sources", among them the U.N.

These are your "lies", in front of your eyes..

[Svensson]

An example of my "willful misrepresentation"...



Students repeat genocidal chants against Israel




On its first day, the McMaster encampment, which formed around 2 p.m. ET Sunday, was mostly quiet. Some protesters wrote on the sidewalks in chalk and others helped hang signs and banners that included messages like "no pride in genocide" and "stop arming Israel."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2024/05/02/protests-universities-students-palestine-antisemitism-extremists/73525814007/

And, they claim they have "official sources", among them the U.N.

These are your "lies", in front of your eyes..

in other words, lets not talk about my misreprentation, look over there instead.

you stated that the genocideis "proven totally wrong"

it was not "proven totally wrong" at all.

[Wickerman]

you stated that the genocideis "proven totally wrong"

it was not "proven totally wrong" at all.

No, the "false charge" I was referring to was already discussed on post 29.


Fact check: False claim UN court found Israel violated genocide convention

Instead, Kirby said the U.S. disagrees with South Africa's genocide claim and has not seen any indication that Israel's goal is to exterminate the Palestinian people, according to a transcript and video of the press briefing provided by the White House.

Wokists, leftists, ignorant students among pro Palestine protests at universities across the west (USA, Can, UK, etc.) and bedwetters in general, have been spouting similar claims for months.

That claim was shown to be false - which means it is TOTALLY wrong.

So, if you prefer to use inflammatory language, like accusing me of "lying", then to avoid embarrassing yourself any further, please check the subject matter before jumping in with both feet, and slipping on your arse....

[Svensson]

John Kirby is not the arbiter of whether genocide happened in Gaza or not, he is communicating the position of the US government. So it doesn't matter if you quote John Kirby or Winnie the Poo, the only opinion that matters here is the ICJ and they are continuing to investigate.