The Poppy

[Fleetwood Mac]

Irish footballer sent home by his club for refusing to wear the poppy.

http://www.derrydaily.net/2013/11/10/james-mcclean-dropped-by-wigan-for-not-wearing-poppy/

[pinkmoon]

Irish footballer sent home by his club for refusing to wear the poppy.

http://www.derrydaily.net/2013/11/10...wearing-poppy/

This gentleman has every right in the world to refuse to wear a poppy but I have to say I personally find him a disrespectfull bastard.

[Fleetwood Mac]

This gentleman has every right in the world to refuse to wear a poppy but I have to say I personally find him a disrespectfull bastard.

'Time he went home.

[pinkmoon]

'Time he went home.

Don't know why he dosnt pop down to his nearest war memorial and urinate on it just in case there's someone he hasn't offended

[Cogidubnus]

Since he's unable to acclamatise to British sensibilities then he's been falsely taking British wages from the British economy for the past twelve months, and since he's (albeit falsely) making a moral issue of things, I'd suggest, to avoid taking money from a tainted source, he needs to donate his last years salary to a suitable charity...I'd suggest the Royal British Legion.

All the best

Dave

[Limehouse]

Don't know why he dosnt pop down to his nearest war memorial and urinate on it just in case there's someone he hasn't offended

Just because a person refuses to wear a poppy, it does not mean they do not honour and respect the sacrifice made by those who have died.

The issues over whether to wear a poppy or not run much deeper than some of the flippant and ignorant remarks made here.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Since he's unable to acclamatise to British sensibilities then he's been falsely taking British wages from the British economy for the past twelve months, and since he's (albeit falsely) making a moral issue of things, I'd suggest, to avoid taking money from a tainted source, he needs to donate his last years salary to a suitable charity...I'd suggest the Royal British Legion.

All the best

Dave

Couldn't agree more, Dave.

He's a charlatan. Happy to take the English pound while making a political statement that is clearly a refusal to acknowledge the people who have fought and died for this country.

German and Spanish managers based here wear the poppy in the build up to Remembrance Day; Roy Keane and Niall Quinn, two Irishmen, wear the poppy because they know what it means to this country and they know that England has been good to them in terms of earning a living.

But, not this idiot. Principles? If he had any he wouldn't be here; he'd be working in the community that he clearly feels has been on the wrong end of English/British oppression.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Just because a person refuses to wear a poppy, it does not mean they do not honour and respect the sacrifice made by those who have died.

The issues over whether to wear a poppy or not run much deeper than some of the flippant and ignorant remarks made here.

You think so? You think everyone is sitting down and pontificating over the pros and cons of wearing a poppy?

No they're not. Most of us wear it because we instinctively recognise the sacrifice made by people who have fought and died for this country. Most of us have a relative who have served in the armed forces and many of us have a relative who died in WW1.

Remembrance Day is exactly that: a tip of the hat and a few minutes silence for those who have died away from the comfort of their homes. McClean is within his rights to not wear the poppy but so are we to ask him the question: in the event your conscience can't bring you to remember the British dead, then where is your conscience in taking the English pound? You do realise that the armed forces have played a significant role in building the country that earns you a living? Why don't you go home and work for the people you would like us to think are you cause?

[Limehouse]

You think so? You think everyone is sitting down and pontificating over the pros and cons of wearing a poppy?

No they're not. Most of us wear it because we instinctively recognise the sacrifice made by people who have fought and died for this country. Most of us have a relative who have served in the armed forces and many of us have a relative who died in WW1.

Remembrance Day is exactly that: a tip of the hat and a few minutes silence for those who have died away from the comfort of their homes. McClean is within his rights to not wear the poppy but so are we to ask him the question: in the event your conscience can't bring you to remember the British dead, then where is your conscience in taking the English pound? You do realise that the armed forces have played a significant role in building the country that earns you a living? Why don't you go home and work for the people you would like us to think are you cause?

You don't have to wear a poppy to remember the sacrifice made by people who have fought and died for this country. You don't have to wear a poppy to honour and observe Remembrance Day.

Here is a man who honours the sacrifice made by those who served and died or were injured, but he will no longer wear a poppy. It makes good reading and demonstrates how the poppy has been hijacked and its meaning corrupted.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/08/poppy-last-time-remembrance-harry-leslie-smith

[Fleetwood Mac]

You don't have to wear a poppy to remember the sacrifice made by people who have fought and died for this country. You don't have to wear a poppy to honour and observe Remembrance Day.

Here is a man who honours the sacrifice made by those who served and died or were injured, but he will no longer wear a poppy. It makes good reading and demonstrates how the poppy has been hijacked and its meaning corrupted.


http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...y-leslie-smith

So, The Guardian (unadulterated left-wing propaganda machine) carries a story by one man, which by anyone's standards is an anecdote as opposed to any reasoned instruction on the feelings of an entire country; and this demonstrates that 'the poppy has been hijacked'?

I thought you people were enlightened and only those of us on the right are reactionary?

You would have to be a penny short of a full shilling to even attempt to suggest that the millions who wear the poppy are subservient to corruption and unable to grasp the significance of its meaning (the usual left-wing fall back position: "you just don't understand").

Millions of people wear the poppy because they appreciate the sacrifice made by the armed forces and the poppy provides an outlet to demonstrate this.

[Limehouse]

So, The Guardian (unadulterated left-wing propaganda machine) carries a story by one man, which by anyone's standards is an anecdote as opposed to any reasoned instruction on the feelings of an entire country; and this demonstrates that 'the poppy has been hijacked'?

I thought you people were enlightened and only those of us on the right are reactionary?

You would have to be a penny short of a full shilling to even attempt to suggest that the millions who wear the poppy are subservient to corruption and unable to grasp the significance of its meaning (the usual left-wing fall back position: "you just don't understand").

Millions of people wear the poppy because they appreciate the sacrifice made by the armed forces and the poppy provides an outlet to demonstrate this.

What does it matter if the Guardian is a left-wing paper? Does that make this man's story and views valueless?

Millions of people are entitled to wear the poppy to show that they honour the sacrifice made. That is their choice and I would never, ever suggest they should not do so. Many people chose not to wear the poppy but still honour and appreciate the sacrifice made. This does not mean they wish to piss on war memorials, as suggested by a poster on this thread.

Getting back to the story featured in your link, employers should not be allowed to bully their employees into wearing a poppy. People ought to be able to exercise their own judgement.

[Fleetwood Mac]

What does it matter if the Guardian is a left-wing paper? Does that make this man's story and views valueless?

Getting back to the story featured in your link, employers should not be allowed to bully their employees into wearing a poppy. People ought to be able to exercise their own judgement.

It matters because The Guardian has an agenda and it is a business, which means it peddles messages that its readership wants to hear. And one man's story does not represent the feeling of a nation which is what you suggested but now you're attempting to move the goalposts.

Sunderland AFC and Wigan Athletic FC are not public organisations. They are not beholden to your left-wing opinions and the left-wing intelligentsia. These two football clubs represent the communities in which they are based, and one clearly felt that McClean's stance was not in tune with the feelings of the community; particularly as he had adopted the same stance one year earlier at Sunderland the fans let him know what they thought about it in no uncertain terms, and it was the beginning of the end of his career at Sunderland.

[Robert]

"It matters because The Guardian has an agenda and it is a business"

Of course, real businesses have to persuade people to buy their product, rather than forcing them to :

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/sep/23/broadband-levy-save-newspapers

[Fleetwood Mac]

"It matters because The Guardian has an agenda and it is a business"

Of course, real businesses have to persuade people to buy their product, rather than forcing them to :

http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...ave-newspapers

Dear me. The only way to save 'the plank of democracy' is to impose a tax upon people who choose to use the internet in order to prop up The Guardian. You'd have to be barking mad to suggest it, beyond lunacy to write it and frothing at the mouth to believe it. Sometimes I wonder if I'm imagining all of this.

These people really haven't changed since the days of revolution: "Look at us. We're going to save the world. All we need is your money". Only then it was: "Look at us. We're going to save the world and give you freedom. All we need is for you to believe us and farther down the line dissenters will have their heads lopped off".

[Limehouse]

It matters because The Guardian has an agenda and it is a business, which means it peddles messages that its readership wants to hear. And one man's story does not represent the feeling of a nation which is what you suggested but now you're attempting to move the goalposts.

Sunderland AFC and Wigan Athletic FC are not public organisations. They are not beholden to your left-wing opinions and the left-wing intelligentsia. These two football clubs represent the communities in which they are based, and one clearly felt that McClean's stance was not in tune with the feelings of the community; particularly as he had adopted the same stance one year earlier at Sunderland the fans let him know what they thought about it in no uncertain terms, and it was the beginning of the end of his career at Sunderland.

The link you provided, that started this thread, was from a newspaper story. Perhaps that newspaper had an agenda too?

I never suggested that the soldier's views, published in The Guardian, represented the views of a nation. I posted the story to demonstrate that you do not have to wear a poppy to respect the war dead.

Wigan Athletic is a business, just like the Guardian and no, it does not have to be beholden to my left-wing views which, by the way, have NOTHING to do with why I support the footballer's right not to wear a poppy and his right not to be sacked for standing by his principles. The club may well claim to uphold the views and feelings of the communities it represents, but that rarely extends to selecting its players from the local community. No, it buys players (like all clubs do) on the basis of how profitable they will be for the club. As such, in my view, the club has no right to insist the player wears a poppy if his conscience troubles him.

For the record, this was the first year I did not wear a poppy. I observed the two minutes silence on the Sunday and the Monday and spent the time reflecting on the service men and women from all over the world (remember those who served who were not resident in this country??) have paid to this country, with their lives or their health.

It is easy to pin a poppy on your chest and show the world, for a few days, how much you respect the war dead and injured. But it doesn't mean that everyone who wears one actually cares two hoots and it doesn't mean that those who do not wear one are disrespectful.