whaling

[pinkmoon]

Is there anybody on here who thinks like me that whaling in this modern world of ours is just plain cruel and offensive and shouldn't happen full stop.

[Cogidubnus]

I think you're absolutely right, but what, in practical terms, can you or I do about it?

All the best

Dave

[pinkmoon]

I think you're absolutely right, but what, in practical terms, can you or I do about it?

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave,I've finally plucked up the courage to do something I sent icelandic embassy an email saying that the rest of the world will always view iceland as a retarded nation while they kill whales .I got a reply after nearly two weeks telling me that iceland only kills whales that are found in abundance near iceland and its not cruel on the strength of this we have to view iceland as very retarded indeed.Not all of Icelands population will support whaling but it has no place in our modern world and it has to stop.

[Robert]

Hi Pink

If you think it's cruel, just say it's cruel. Never mind about offensive....rest of the world....no place for this etc.

[The Good Michael]

Meat is meat. It's only custom, religion, or culture that denies us some, allows us others, and makes us uncomfortable over those who eat what we think of as taboo. For the Faroes as an example, whale is their meat. Unless you (pinkmoon) want to orovide alternatives, you can't tell people what to do. What is cruel and unusual is the use of parts of animals for medicinal purposes when the practices don't work. That's what I want stopped.

Mike

[sdreid]

As a kid, I wanted to be a whaler but I'm against it now. There is no humane way to kill a whale that I know of. Shooting a grenade into an animal's body and then setting it off sounds cruel to me because death is usually not instantaneous. And, whaling by indigenous people is somewhat like death by 1000 cuts. Even though the intent isn't to torture the animal, that's what results.

[Errata]

Meat is meat. It's only custom, religion, or culture that denies us some, allows us others, and makes us uncomfortable over those who eat what we think of as taboo. For the Faroes as an example, whale is their meat. Unless you (pinkmoon) want to orovide alternatives, you can't tell people what to do. What is cruel and unusual is the use of parts of animals for medicinal purposes when the practices don't work. That's what I want stopped.

Mike

I would say you are both right and wrong in this one. Meat is meat certainly on an occasional basis. We can eat any meat there is occasionally. Even human if we so choose. But it is not only custom religion and culture that mandates what we eat and what we avoid. No creature eats it's own species if there is another source of food, for example. And it is one of the most deeply ingrained tenets of our survival so that nothing scares us more than cannibals. As it happens, it's dangerous for a creature to eat it's own species. It causes debilitating prion diseases. So the taboo against cannibalism is actually there for our survival.

But we don't eat predators either. It's fine occasionally, but it also leads to the destruction of our species. There are essentially nutrients we cannot pull out of vegetation. Our bodies can't pull them out of a salad. So basically, we eat creatures who can pull it out of a salad. It's vital. Whales are predators. Eating whale mean gives us the protein of any other meat, the blubber is a good source of vitamin C, which lets face it, aboriginal norther cultures need desperately. But like any fatty fish, whales absorb the toxins of the sea and store it in their fat. Aboriginal cultures are actually facing serious health problems from eating whale. But whale is also something like empty calories.The meat itself simply doesn't have the same benefits for humans as herbivore meat.

I don't so much mind aboriginal whale hunting. It's a situation based on need, and they are certainly not going to make a significant dent in the whale population. I worry about the aboriginals who are relying on whale meat, because it isn't enough. They already face serious malnutrition based solely on where they live. I hate to see them add to it. But I get why they do it, and I'm fine with that. Norway, Japan and Iceland on the other hand don't need whale meat. It's a delicacy. Why by definition means if it disappeared no one would go hungry. Whales are still endangered. I don't care if you have a healthy population off your shores. That healthy population is desperately needed. Whales were an integral part of the ecosystem of our oceans. And the lack of whales has harmed the ocean immeasurably. And as a species who now equally relies on fish as part of our diets, especially Japan Norway and Iceland, it is baffling to me that they are not more concerned with preserving their fisheries than with hunting whales. Because one does affect the other.

In other words, of course whale is just meat. So is human if we are going to be honest. But cultural acceptance of whale as meat should not be the deciding factor. Preserving our ocean and fisheries should be the deciding factor. (Yes, whales are endangered, but we are a lot better with enlightened self interest than we are with moral conviction) It is absolutely unfathomable that Japan risks their fisheries for a delicacy. And a not especially delicious one.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Jason

Can I assume you've written in the same vein to the Japanese embassy? And do you really think it will ellicit any more constructive response?

All the time there is a loophole in the International treaties that permits so-called scientific whaling then this will continue.

I do see a distinction between whaling and the killing of farmed animals for food. Many, alas, do not....

All the best

Dave

[pinkmoon]

Hi Jason

Can I assume you've written in the same vein to the Japanese embassy? And do you really think it will ellicit any more constructive response?

All the time there is a loophole in the International treaties that permits so-called scientific whaling then this will continue.

I do see a distinction between whaling and the killing of farmed animals for food. Many, alas, do not....

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave,you are bang on my efforts will probley make no difference but I can't moan if I don't try and do something about it.

[The Good Michael]

In other words, of course whale is just meat. So is human if we are going to be honest. But cultural acceptance of whale as meat should not be the deciding factor. Preserving our ocean and fisheries should be the deciding factor. (Yes, whales are endangered, but we are a lot better with enlightened self interest than we are with moral conviction) It is absolutely unfathomable that Japan risks their fisheries for a delicacy. And a not especially delicious one.

Of course it would be so much better if we didn't eat any meat and we all lived in harmony with one another in an attempt to keep this old world from expiring, blah, blah, blah. Until we get rid of of feelings of entitlement that are connected to, custom, culture, and religion. And until multiculturalism means remembering where you came from, but still doing what is best for the world as a whole, meat is meat. I hate that people eat whales and dolphins and primates. I don't like dog-eating or cat-eating. I abhor the treatment of animals as factory goods. I am disgusted by the Asian use of animal parts so that old alcoholics have false hope to achieve an erection. Yet we accept all this because we accept religion and cultural differences, and all these things are interconnected and added to the greed of people who keep all this nonsense going because it's worth a lot of money to them. It isn't changing and the world will soon go out with a whimper.

Mike

[Ginger]

I would not mind a bit seeing the whalers captured and hanged wholesale as pirates. They deserve to die.

So far as the argument that we should tolerate evil acts as having legitimacy within another culture, I can't buy that. When we encounter chattel slavery, human sacrifice, genocide, etc, we don't excuse those as stemming from different cultural values. In those cases we accept that Western beliefs are superior to all others, and we use force, when necessary, to ensure compliance. That needs to happen with whaling as well.

[The Good Michael]

I would not mind a bit seeing the whalers captured and hanged wholesale as pirates. They deserve to die.

So far as the argument that we should tolerate evil acts as having legitimacy within another culture, I can't buy that. When we encounter chattel slavery, human sacrifice, genocide, etc, we don't excuse those as stemming from different cultural values. In those cases we accept that Western beliefs are superior to all others, and we use force, when necessary, to ensure compliance. That needs to happen with whaling as well.

How can you suggest all those things you've mentioned are wrong?

Mike

[Errata]

Of course it would be so much better if we didn't eat any meat and we all lived in harmony with one another in an attempt to keep this old world from expiring, blah, blah, blah. Until we get rid of of feelings of entitlement that are connected to, custom, culture, and religion. And until multiculturalism means remembering where you came from, but still doing what is best for the world as a whole, meat is meat. I hate that people eat whales and dolphins and primates. I don't like dog-eating or cat-eating. I abhor the treatment of animals as factory goods. I am disgusted by the Asian use of animal parts so that old alcoholics have false hope to achieve an erection. Yet we accept all this because we accept religion and cultural differences, and all these things are interconnected and added to the greed of people who keep all this nonsense going because it's worth a lot of money to them. It isn't changing and the world will soon go out with a whimper.

Mike

And I agree with you. But in so many other places enlightened self interest trumps cultural norms all the time. Which is why it is baffling to me that whale hunting continues. They stopped eating their own dead in Papua New Guinea because they were getting sick. Many Native American tribes stopped using hallucinogenics in their rites because it was attracting criminals. Most Americans stopped littering on the roads because we don't want to pay a 1000 dollar fine. It's not the culture suddenly decided that what they were doing was amoral, it was that it was no longer worth the price they had to pay. Really the blame has to be shifted away from the hunters, whether it be whale, rhino, sharks, whatever. We have to socially punish those who partake to the point that it isn't worth it. It's the only thing that works. And the hunters won't hunt if theres no money in it. You want to change things, write about how people who eat whale are statistically more likely to engage in child abuse. I'm sure that a link could be made somewhere, but even if its just a lie with phony references, people will back off. They can't take the chance.

[DVV]

I understand those who are disturbed by whaling in 2013. Still, I have the nostalgy of the times when whaling wasn't a crime. I wish I could see Nantucket as it was two centuries ago.

[Phil Carter]

I understand those who are disturbed by whaling in 2013. Still, I have the nostalgy of the times when whaling wasn't a crime. I wish I could see Nantucket as it was two centuries ago.

As the only whaling museum in Europe...

http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hvalfangstmuseet

The town where I happen to live.



Phil