Trump charged

[jason_c]

I think all of this stands and falĺs with your presumption of Jack Smith having filed "dubious charges". What if they are not dubious? Then what will you do?

It's not really a matter of me doing anything. I'm not American. I'm simply predicting the potential response of a large chunk of the American public. Alan Dershowitz thinks the most likely outcome is that Trump will be convicted on the latest charge, he'll lose the appeal at circuit level but win at the Supreme Court. If that happens(and that's admittedly still a big if) then all we'll get from the anti-Trumpers is a 'whoopsie' and move on. I'm assuming by then Trump will not run again. His age probably counting against him. However, the objective of the prosecution will have been served; to handicap Trump for electoral purposes. It's a similar play to Hunter's laptop. The MSM and 50 intelligence personnel (or former personnel) signed a letter saying the laptop was Russian disinformation. A year or two later and that was shown to be very wrong. However, the objective was achieved; protect Joe Biden's election chances in the autumn of 2020.

[String]

So we have the prosecution is to ruin Trumps election prospects and at the same time the prosecution is helping Trumps election prospects. Which is it?

[Fiver]

So we have the prosecution is to ruin Trumps election prospects and at the same time the prosecution is helping Trumps election prospects. Which is it?

Trumpanistas live in a magical land where everything is two contradictory things at the same time. Illegal immigrants are lazy parasites who want free money from the government instead of working and they've come here to steal your job. Joe Biden is a doddering, senile fool and a cunning mastermind that faked an election so well that no one can find evidence.

[jason_c]

So we have the prosecution is to ruin Trumps election prospects and at the same time the prosecution is helping Trumps election prospects. Which is it?

I think you'd agree with me that we are entering undiscovered country in terms of modern US politics. We don't know for sure how these prosecutions will play out in terms of the election. However, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that these prosecution's help Trump with his base but hurt him with independents. This scenario is neither controversial or wacky.

[jason_c]

Trumpanistas live in a magical land where everything is two contradictory things at the same time. Illegal immigrants are lazy parasites who want free money from the government instead of working and they've come here to steal your job. Joe Biden is a doddering, senile fool and a cunning mastermind that faked an election so well that no one can find evidence.

Illegal immigrants can be both parasites and looking to take jobs of American citizens. Both these things can be true at the same time.

[rjpalmer]

You have to love the blatant hypocrisy of the Republican Party.

They rail about illegal workers, yet all the while secretly employ them.

The latest to get busted is Trump Worshipper and CEO of Truth Social, Devin Nunes, whose family farm "knowingly and deliberately" hired illegal aliens. Trump himself used illegals.

Nunes family farm employed undocumented immigrants: Judge (lawandcrime.com)

The reality is far more complex than the Tucker Carlson soundbites that the MAGA crowd parrots.

Undocumented workers are usually supplied with bogus social security numbers and social security taxes are then taken from their wages, even though they will never collect a dime of it.

So, in reality, they pump millions into the system and help keep it afloat.

In fact, if it wasn't for immigration (legal as well as legal) the Social Security system would collapse a lot quicker than what is being projected. You can read it about it under the title "How Immigration Supports the Social Security System."

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/downloa...ity-System.pdf

Obviously, none of this is 'ideal,' but the blatant hypocrisy of the conservatives is what is galling. It is also now an undeniable fact that mass immigration is being fueled, in part, by climate change--something the conservatives deny is real and refuse to acknowledge in their shortsighted policies.

[Fiver]

Illegal immigrants can be both parasites and looking to take jobs of American citizens. Both these things can be true at the same time.

Thank you for proving my point. Trumpanistas live in a magical land where everything is two contradictory things at the same time.

[jason_c]

You have to love the blatant hypocrisy of the Republican Party.

They rail about illegal workers, yet all the while secretly employ them.

The latest to get busted is Trump Worshipper and CEO of Truth Social, Devin Nunes, whose family farm "knowingly and deliberately" hired illegal aliens. Trump himself used illegals.

Nunes family farm employed undocumented immigrants: Judge (lawandcrime.com)

The reality is far more complex than the Tucker Carlson soundbites that the MAGA crowd parrots.

Undocumented workers are usually supplied with bogus social security numbers and social security taxes are then taken from their wages, even though they will never collect a dime of it.

So, in reality, they pump millions into the system and help keep it afloat.

In fact, if it wasn't for immigration (legal as well as legal) the Social Security system would collapse a lot quicker than what is being projected. You can read it about it under the title "How Immigration Supports the Social Security System."

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/downloa...ity-System.pdf

Obviously, none of this is 'ideal,' but the blatant hypocrisy of the conservatives is what is galling. It is also now an undeniable fact that mass immigration is being fueled, in part, by climate change--something the conservatives deny is real and refuse to acknowledge in their shortsighted policies.

I can point you to NYC Mayor, Eric Adams. According to Adams NYC is now full. Adams says NYC can't take in any more illegal immigrants. Yet his party(and I assume he himself)continues to tacitly support illegal immigration. However, it's all those poor over-run Southern counties and states that will have to house them. If Adams is saying they cannot take any more locally you bet many of his own supporters in NYC are saying it too. I know Chicago is having the exact same issues. Local people in Chicago are turning against having illegals in their community.

I personally have no real opinion on immigration other than it should be done legally. Whilst immigration(both legal and illegal) bring positives and negatives you can guarantee a mass influx of immigrants brings pressures on local communities each and every time. If large scale immigration can bring economic pressures on locals in 1880's Whitechapel you can bet it can do the same today in the likes of NYC, Chicago and El Paso.

[Svensson]

Alan Dershowitz thinks the most likely outcome is that Trump will be convicted on the latest charge, he'll lose the appeal at circuit level but win at the Supreme Court.

Alan Dershowitz is a bleeping idiot for saying this because

1. he has not been able to examine the evidence that the DOJ will present.
2. he does not know what witnesses the prosecution will present and what they will attest to.
3. If Trump loses, he does not know on what grounds Trump will appeal. (I give you a hint: if there are NO grounds, Trump will claim "unfair trial")
4. the grounds for an appeal are important because they will determine the supreme court's likelihood of declining or taking up the case.
5. he does not know on what grounds the supreme court WOULD overturn the guilty verdict.

so basically, what Alan Dershovitz is saying is complete and utter boĺlocks. And that's about the most friendly term I can come up with.

Cheers.

[jason_c]

Alan Dershowitz is a bleeping idiot for saying this because

1. he has not been able to examine the evidence that the DOJ will present.
2. he does not know what witnesses the prosecution will present and what they will attest to.
3. If Trump loses, he does not know on what grounds Trump will appeal. (I give you a hint: if there are NO grounds, Trump will claim "unfair trial")
4. the grounds for an appeal are important because they will determine the supreme court's likelihood of declining or taking up the case.
5. he does not know on what grounds the supreme court WOULD overturn the guilty verdict.

so basically, what Alan Dershovitz is saying is complete and utter boĺlocks. And that's about the most friendly term I can come up with.

Cheers.

The Constitution IS known by Dershowitz. He thinks aspects of this case against Trump impinges his rights under the 1st and 6th amendment. Also, to be fair to Dershowitz he says this is the most likely outcome not that it will be the outcome.

Of course Trump will claim an unfair trial if it all goes against him. I would be disappointed if he didn't. In a fight to the political death the man cannot go out with a whimper. If he legally goes down he'll bloody as many as he can on the way, and if that means, say, calling the DA, Judge and DoJ partisan hacks then so be it. The Republic has survived worse. What it has not yet shown it can survive is the jailing of the government's main political opponent.

[Fiver]

The Constitution IS known by Dershowitz. He thinks aspects of this case against Trump impinges his rights under the 1st and 6th amendment. Also, to be fair to Dershowitz he says this is the most likely outcome not that it will be the outcome.

Then Dershowitz is an idiot. None of the charges are because Trump lied, so there is no 1st Amendment defense. There would only be 6th Amendment grounds for appeal if the prosecutor tried to delay the trial or there was evidence that one or more jurors were not impartial. The reason Trump trials drag on is because he tries to delay them. And jurors haven't even been selected yet.

[c.d.]

Just for the record, there is no automatic right of appeal to the Supreme Court. You have to file a Writ of Certiorari asking them to hear the case. In the vast majority of cases, the Writ is denied. Since this would involve an ex-President in an unprecedented case I imagine they would agree to hear it but that is not certain.

And for what it is worth, Dershowitz was part of O.J. Simpson's legal defense team in his murder trial.

c.d.

[Fiver]

And for what it is worth, Dershowitz was part of O.J. Simpson's legal defense team in his murder trial.

Giuliani used be a good lawyer, too. There's something about working with Trump that sucks out their ethics and their brains.

[jason_c]

Then Dershowitz is an idiot. None of the charges are because Trump lied, so there is no 1st Amendment defense. There would only be 6th Amendment grounds for appeal if the prosecutor tried to delay the trial or there was evidence that one or more jurors were not impartial. The reason Trump trials drag on is because he tries to delay them. And jurors haven't even been selected yet.

I'll take the opinion of Dershowitz on this matter over some random poster on the internet.

[jason_c]

Just for the record, there is no automatic right of appeal to the Supreme Court. You have to file a Writ of Certiorari asking them to hear the case. In the vast majority of cases, the Writ is denied. Since this would involve an ex-President in an unprecedented case I imagine they would agree to hear it but that is not certain.

And for what it is worth, Dershowitz was part of O.J. Simpson's legal defense team in his murder trial.

c.d.

That last line was a pretty cheap shot. Even bad people require lawyers, no? Unless you're of the opinion only nice cuddly folk wrongly accused are deserving of legal representation?