Trump charged

[Fiver]

Edit; I just read that judge Kaplan instructed the jury to find Trump culpable in the 'rape case' if they thought it greater than a 50% chance Trump raped Carroll. Not the sort of odds I'd want as a defendant in any trial.

That was Judge Kaplan explaining how the law works in civil cases. That standard is not "reasonable doubt" it is "a preponderance of the evidence". The jury found Trump liable on two charges, sexual assault and defamation, but not on the third charge of rape.

[FISHY1118]

You are correct that a competent lawyer wouldn't do that. Guliani is not a competent lawyer.

Nor you a competent speller, thats

"Giuliani "

[jason_c]

You are correct that a competent lawyer wouldn't do that. Guliani is not a competent lawyer.

Giuliani was a successful lawyer for decades. He took on the mafia and won. I can only assume he was at least competent at his job. He was also a successful politician. It at least suggests he is nobody's fool. Yet, we are expected to believe he told a recently hired aide that he was accepting bribes, not only him but he let slip Trump was also accepting bribes too. Giulini then decides to sexually harass this same aide? Those who would believe this narrative are the same people who also believed in Russian collusion and the likes.

[jason_c]

That is exactly what I was responding to. You are incorrect.

90% of people charged by the Feds pled guilty, presumably as part of a plea bargain.
8% had their charges dismissed.
2% went to trial.

Of those who went to trial, 83% were convicted. That's a 17% chance of being acquitted, not a 1% chance.

It's still a 99+% success rate. The U.S Attorney's office decide not to go ahead with 8% of cases, this could be for a variety of reasons; from a witness withdrawing evidence to the defendant's father being Joe Biden. Of the cases the office goes ahead with there is a 99+% conviction rate.

[Fiver]

Giuliani was a successful lawyer for decades. He took on the mafia and won. I can only assume he was at least competent at his job. He was also a successful politician. It at least suggests he is nobody's fool. Yet, we are expected to believe he told a recently hired aide that he was accepting bribes, not only him but he let slip Trump was also accepting bribes too. Giulini then decides to sexually harass this same aide? Those who would believe this narrative are the same people who also believed in Russian collusion and the likes.

Key word - was. Since Guiliani joined Trump's legal team, Guiliani has increasingly acted like a cartoon character stepping on a series of rakes and repeatedly smacking himself in the face.

I don't know if Dunphy is telling the truth about Guiliani, but Dunphy claims to have recordings that support her claims.

[Fiver]

It's still a 99+% success rate. The U.S Attorney's office decide not to go ahead with 8% of cases, this could be for a variety of reasons; from a witness withdrawing evidence to the defendant's father being Joe Biden. Of the cases the office goes ahead with there is a 99+% conviction rate.

The facts still don't agree with you.

90% of people charged by the Feds pled guilty, presumably as part of a plea bargain.
8% had their charges dismissed.
2% went to trial.

Of those who went to trial, 83% were convicted. That's a 17% chance of being acquitted, not a 1% chance.

[jason_c]

The facts still don't agree with you.

90% of people charged by the Feds pled guilty, presumably as part of a plea bargain.
8% had their charges dismissed.
2% went to trial.

Of those who went to trial, 83% were convicted. That's a 17% chance of being acquitted, not a 1% chance.

A plea bargain secures conviction. Include the plea bargains and it's less than 1% chance of acquittal.

[jason_c]

Key word - was. Since Guiliani joined Trump's legal team, Guiliani has increasingly acted like a cartoon character stepping on a series of rakes and repeatedly smacking himself in the face.

I don't know if Dunphy is telling the truth about Guiliani, but Dunphy claims to have recordings that support her claims.

Ok, next time I cheat on my taxes I'll remember to tell my newly appointed secretary I'm doing so, implicating a friend who is also cheating on their taxes, I'll then sexually harass this new secretary. All the while fairly certain said secretary will keep my dastardly deeds to herself.

[Svensson]

Giuliani was a successful lawyer for decades. He took on the mafia and won. I can only assume he was at least competent at his job. He was also a successful politician. It at least suggests he is nobody's fool. Yet, we are expected to believe he told a recently hired aide that he was accepting bribes, not only him but he let slip Trump was also accepting bribes too. Giulini then decides to sexually harass this same aide? Those who would believe this narrative are the same people who also believed in Russian collusion and the likes.

If you think that some people believed the "Russian collusion and the likes", then I'm afraid to tell you that this is pretty much what happened. The Trump team were screaming out to collude with Russia in 2016. (Remember Trump Junior's "If it is what I think it is, I LOVE IT!" email?).

Remember that Mueller could not investigate "Collusion" because collusion is not a crime. So he investigated "Criminal Consipracy" [with Russia] and then proceeds to release a report full of Trump team collusion with Russia.

Remember, dozens of shady character in Trump's orbit having over 100 contacts with Russian officials. Btw, how may contacts with UK or German officials by comparison I wonder.... There is a summary of all these sprawling contacts at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_...ials_and_spies

Steve Bannon huimself called that Trump Junior meeting with Russian intelligence (the one where they allegedly talked about orphans) "treasonous": https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1ES1GK. And trump himself tweeted that “This was a meeting to get information on an opponent, totally legal and done all the time in politics - and it went nowhere,” he wrote. “I did not know about it!” "https://www.newyorker.com/news/swamp-chronicles/the-day-trump-told-us-there-was-attempted-collusion-with-russia

there is also another take on the 2020 republican led senate report (I know, you have already dismissed if for some reason becasue not all of the underlying intelligence has been made public for you to peronally verify) which suggests that The collusion was very real and that Trump used his pardoning power to stop Roger Stone from telling the truth about his contacts with Wikileaks and trump's orders to work with Wikileaks. https://www.americanprogress.org/pre...a-tanden-says/

So what's basically happening is that trump is walking around telling you that the sky is green. And you seem to believe it.

As for Giuliani, yes, he seems to have been a competent lawyer some time ago when as a US attourney, he succesfully took on the mob. Pretty much what Alvin Bragg is doing right now, no? Besides, I'm sure he didn't have pressers in front of sex-shops back then.

[Svensson]

If you think that some people believed the "Russian collusion and the likes", then I'm afraid to tell you that this is pretty much what happened. The Trump team were screaming out to collude with Russia in 2016. (Remember Trump Junior's "If it is what I think it is, I LOVE IT!" email?).

Remember that Mueller could not investigate "Collusion" because collusion is not a crime. So he investigated "Criminal Consipracy" [with Russia] and then proceeds to release a report full of Trump team collusion with Russia.

Remember, dozens of shady character in Trump's orbit having over 100 contacts with Russian officials. Btw, how may contacts with UK or German officials by comparison I wonder.... There is a summary of all these sprawling contacts at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_...ials_and_spies

Steve Bannon huimself called that Trump Junior meeting with Russian intelligence (the one where they allegedly talked about orphans) "treasonous": https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1ES1GK. And trump himself tweeted that “This was a meeting to get information on an opponent, totally legal and done all the time in politics - and it went nowhere,” he wrote. “I did not know about it!” "https://www.newyorker.com/news/swamp-chronicles/the-day-trump-told-us-there-was-attempted-collusion-with-russia

there is also another take on the 2020 republican led senate report (I know, you have already dismissed if for some reason becasue not all of the underlying intelligence has been made public for you to peronally verify) which suggests that The collusion was very real and that Trump used his pardoning power to stop Roger Stone from telling the truth about his contacts with Wikileaks and trump's orders to work with Wikileaks. https://www.americanprogress.org/pre...a-tanden-says/

So what's basically happening is that trump is walking around telling you that the sky is green. And you seem to believe it.

As for Giuliani, yes, he seems to have been a competent lawyer some time ago when as a US attourney, he succesfully took on the mob. Pretty much what Alvin Bragg is doing right now, no? Besides, I'm sure he didn't have pressers in front of sex-shops back then.

and btw, this collusion is STILL going on NOW. Why do you think that Trump keeps gushing over a man who locks up people for 15 years for saying "Stop the war"? He can't even bring himself to say half a bad word about a man who invaded a strategic ally of the US and the EU. Have you not asked yourself why that is? I suggest to you that he is doing this becasue he wants Putin to intervene on his behalf in the 2024 election. If there is any prospect of them two ever meeting again in an official capacity, my guess is that Trump will need to be surgically removed from Putin's colon at the end of it. He did it before, he will do it again.

[jason_c]

and btw, this collusion is STILL going on NOW. Why do you think that Trump keeps gushing over a man who locks up people for 15 years for saying "Stop the war"? He can't even bring himself to say half a bad word about a man who invaded a strategic ally of the US and the EU. Have you not asked yourself why that is? I suggest to you that he is doing this becasue he wants Putin to intervene on his behalf in the 2024 election. If there is any prospect of them two ever meeting again in an official capacity, my guess is that Trump will need to be surgically removed from Putin's colon at the end of it. He did it before, he will do it again.

This is an interesting take and one that may indeed be true. However, I can give you a different take and imo one more likely to be true; Trump wants to end the war in Ukraine. To do this he has to be an honest broker, or at least appear to be an honest broker. To be an honest broker he has to have some goodwill from both sides. Trump isn't getting goodwill from Putin if he(Trump) calls Putin a war criminal or says he wants Ukraine to prevail over Russia.

Putin is not stupid. If collusion existed between he and Trump I'm sure Putin would allow Trump to critical of Putin to some extent publicly, but know that privately he has Trump in his pocket.

I'll try to respond to your other post later. However, thanks for the generally civi replies. I've had similar arguments elsewhere online and encountered some quite atrocious posts in response to my arguments.

[Fiver]

A plea bargain secures conviction. Include the plea bargains and it's less than 1% chance of acquittal.

8% had their charges dismissed. 100 - 8 = 92, not 99.

[Fiver]

Ok, next time I cheat on my taxes I'll remember to tell my newly appointed secretary I'm doing so, implicating a friend who is also cheating on their taxes, I'll then sexually harass this new secretary. All the while fairly certain said secretary will keep my dastardly deeds to herself.

It would be very stupid. Giuliani's been doing a lot of stupid things in the last few years.

And Dunphy claims to have recordings that support her claims.

[Fiver]

This is an interesting take and one that may indeed be true. However, I can give you a different take and imo one more likely to be true; Trump wants to end the war in Ukraine. To do this he has to be an honest broker, or at least appear to be an honest broker. To be an honest broker he has to have some goodwill from both sides. Trump isn't getting goodwill from Putin if he(Trump) calls Putin a war criminal or says he wants Ukraine to prevail over Russia.

Considering how often and extensively that Trump has praised Putin and advocated in Putin's interest, there is no way that any reasonable person would believe that Trump could be an honest broker between Russia and Ukraine.

Putin is not stupid.

I'd say the last year has debunked that theory about Putin.

[jason_c]

8% had their charges dismissed. 100 - 8 = 92, not 99.

This 8% are cases where the prosecution is not going ahead. Cases in which the prosecution goes ahead the Federal government has >99% conviction rate. Even the Feds can't convict someone without a prosecution going it's full course.