Private sale

[AdamNeilWood]

With respect to the timing of Jim Swanson’s approach to the Telegraph, who is to say it was not influenced by his hearing of Sandell’s death just a few weeks before? It could of course just be coincidental that the person who he had dealings with at the News of the World, and so far as we are aware the only ‘outsider’ who knew the content of the Marginalia, had just died.

Below is a photograph of Jim Swanson's handwriting on his copy of Paul Begg's Uncensored Facts. You'll see he dismisses Paul's comment as to why Jim got in touch with the Telegraph and pencils in the actual reason.

This photo also shows the red lines mentioned in an earlier post, and also gives you the opportunity to compare Jim's marginalia with that in the Lighter Side.

I've also provided an image comparing Jim's handwriting with that on the bottom of page 138 of Lighter Side.

[Lechmere]

The Marginalia refers to a 'Seaside Home', not specifically a Police convalescent home in Brighton.

[pinkmoon]

I'm aware of the publicity surrounding the case back in 88. I remember it well. I think I'm safe in saying though that none of the experts in the field at the time, let alone amateurs like I, had an inkling that a police convalescent home in Brighton even existed in 1888. How then would Mr Swanson, should he hope to perpetrate a hoax, know of it's existence?

I will admit that it wouldn't be general knowledge to most people about home in Brighton but it wouldn't have been impossible for Swansons descendents to know about it unlikely but not impossible.The reason that me and a lot of people are so sceptical about any old or recently discoverd document connected to the ripper murders is this diary business.I have met Mr Barrett on several occasions over the years and I was absolutely appalled how all these so called intelligent people took him seriously he couldn't believe it himself!

[Lechmere]

Thanks Adam.
That pretty much proves that Jim Swanson was responsible for the red lines in the Marginalia and shows that he was prone to annotating books.
It also makes clear that his normal handwriting was not at all like that of DS Swanson.
It doesn't disprove that he was influenced by Sandell's death.
To be clear, if he was influenced by Sandell's death it would be because he was up to no good and had forged all or some of the Marginalia, so I would not expect to see this written down anywhere.

[Trevor Marriott]

Don't worry, I'm quite well thanks. But if you can point me in the direction of where I said that, and also the phrase "You will then be the only person on the planet that does not believe it is totally genuine" as you quote me as saying in your new book, I'd be very grateful.

The phrase you used was said by you to me when we were discussing the marginalia at York

And for the record you failed to disclose the fact that dr Davies had been engaged to do another examination that speaks volumes as to the conduct of you and others who were advising Nevil talk about hidden agendas

[Chris]

And for the record you failed to disclose the fact that dr Davies had been engaged to do another examination that speaks volumes as to the conduct of you and others who were advising Nevil talk about hidden agendas

Absolutely beyond belief. In every sense of the phrase.

[Observer]

The Marginalia refers to a 'Seaside Home', not specifically a Police convalescent home in Brighton.

Ok. This is true. So which Seaside Home do you suppose the writer of the marginalia was referring to? And, supposing that the marginalia is fraudulent, why would a fraudster refer to the witness being taken to a Seaside Home? It has a ring of truth.

[Lechmere]

There are many possibilities. It may have actually referred to a Seaman's Home. But there are problems if it was the convalescent home. No one has come up with an explanation that really holds water for that actually happening.

[Trevor Marriott]

Ok. This is true. So which Seaside Home do you suppose the writer of the marginalia was referring to? And, supposing that the marginalia is fraudulent, why would a fraudster refer to the witness being taken to a Seaside Home? It has a ring of truth.

If what you say is true the fact is that the forger invented the whole story in the knowledge that it could not be proved or disproved
And just for good measures added kosminskis name at the end .

Don't forget mm only mentioned Kosminski by surname only and the memo was in circulation from the 1960's so a nice scenario

[Observer]

There are many possibilities. It may have actually referred to a Seaman's Home. But there are problems if it was the convalescent home. No one has come up with an explanation that really holds water for that actually happening.

The point is why would a fraudster invent a "Seaside Home" in the first place? I can't see any sense in it.

[Jenni Shelden]

There are many possibilities. It may have actually referred to a Seaman's Home. But there are problems if it was the convalescent home. No one has come up with an explanation that really holds water for that actually happening.

Hi Ed,
sure i totally agree that it has a problem trying to say it happened because of the seaside home modern researchers suggest. But all the marginalia shows is that is what Swanson felt.

This is the problem with something like this, we might assume that Swanson wrote it for future generations to read and hence wanted to write a really detailed accurate account (this is what we'd like him to have done as a field!!), but Adam and Keith's article showed he annotated other of his books, so we don't know that he didn't write it just for himself (not saying that this is what happened but all I am saying is we don't know and it could be). In which case the only person he had to write it for was himself and he knew what he meant.

Some people view the marginalia as Swanson supporting Anderson's suspect Polish Jew and stating it to be Kosminski, but I have always wondered if he wasn't claryfying in his mind what Anderson was go on about in his rather pompus tone. Of course it is probably more likely, as has been pointed out to me recently, Anderson used Swanson's suspect as he wasn't on the ground at the time but still.

Did I have a point, yes it was that the seaside home was not specified by DSS so we can't be certain where he meant

best wishes
Jenni

[Jenni Shelden]

Thanks Adam.
That pretty much proves that Jim Swanson was responsible for the red lines in the Marginalia and shows that he was prone to annotating books.
It also makes clear that his normal handwriting was not at all like that of DS Swanson.
It doesn't disprove that he was influenced by Sandell's death.
To be clear, if he was influenced by Sandell's death it would be because he was up to no good and had forged all or some of the Marginalia, so I would not expect to see this written down anywhere.

Hi Ed,
alternatively, since Paul's book came out after the marginalia was discovered and it is a passage about the marginalia, it could be that finding that document prompted Jim to annotate a book that mentioned the very thing, in the style of his late relation.

In regards to Sandell, please excuse my ignorance as I was not born in 1981, but was Charles Sandell a very well known journalist. I googled him and see he was on the wrong side of the Hilsborough reporting - but obviously that it was the wrong side is a new idea, so I don't know how relevant that is to his fame in 1987. What I wonder is if it would have been general knowledge when he passed on and if Jim could therefore of known. Of course its possible he did, but I didnt see any indication this fellow was on a high fame level. It could be my youthful ignorance! (ha youthful)

anyway, just a thought
Jenni

[Observer]

If what you say is true the fact is that the forger invented the whole story in the knowledge that it could not be proved or disproved
And just for good measures added kosminskis name at the end .

Don't forget mm only mentioned Kosminski by surname only and the memo was in circulation from the 1960's so a nice scenario

Again, regarding the location. Why invent a "Seaside Home" ? By definition well outside the jurisdiction of the Met, or City Police. Wouldn't a fraudster have suggested that the identifying of Kosminski had taken place in a police station, within the boundaries of London? Failing this, as an alternative, perhaps suggesting that the ID took place in one of the London asylums. I can not see a fraudster making up a story where both the witness, and suspect, were taken 20 or so miles from London in order to conduct an ID. As I said, to me , the story has a ring of truth. Then again, perhaps I'm gullible.

[pinkmoon]

Hi Ed,
sure i totally agree that it has a problem trying to say it happened because of the seaside home modern researchers suggest. But all the marginalia shows is that is what Swanson felt.

This is the problem with something like this, we might assume that Swanson wrote it for future generations to read and hence wanted to write a really detailed accurate account (this is what we'd like him to have done as a field!!), but Adam and Keith's article showed he annotated other of his books, so we don't know that he didn't write it just for himself (not saying that this is what happened but all I am saying is we don't know and it could be). In which case the only person he had to write it for was himself and he knew what he meant.

Some people view the marginalia as Swanson supporting Anderson's suspect Polish Jew and stating it to be Kosminski, but I have always wondered if he wasn't claryfying in his mind what Anderson was go on about in his rather pompus tone. Of course it is probably more likely, as has been pointed out to me recently, Anderson used Swanson's suspect as he wasn't on the ground at the time but still.

Did I have a point, yes it was that the seaside home was not specified by DSS so we can't be certain where he meant

best wishes
Jenni

Hi Jenni,you make a good point in the days before I owned a kindle which enables me to highlight parts of my books I used to write notes on the bottoms of pages in my ripper books .These notes didn't mean I was agreeing with what was written on the page but to check it against another page or another book.

[Jenni Shelden]

The phrase you used was said by you to me when we were discussing the marginalia at York

And for the record you failed to disclose the fact that dr Davies had been engaged to do another examination that speaks volumes as to the conduct of you and others who were advising Nevil talk about hidden agendas

Hi Trevor,
I don't see how not telling you something, constitutes a hidden agenda?
Especially given your well known hostile views at this time.

I think you are furiously putting up a smoke screen to blur the lines away from the problem that you claimed to have an expert who cold prove Swanson did not write the document and yet you didn't.

And even you have admitted that you didn't - in fact you hinted that you were playing some kind of game ...???

best wishes
Jenni