Private sale

[Ally]

Otherwise I stressed that my post was only based on personal opinion. I broke down exactly what written information I was basing that opinion on.

People were asking what motives there might be for forging the Marginalia, and I gave some straight honest opinion.

Yes I know and I commend you for having the basic integrity to put an opinion and supporting statements down. In this manner they can be argued and refuted and do not just leave a needless smear without supporting evidence. A stench in the air without an identifiable source.

As I said above, though I do not find the supports for your opinion at all compelling, you at least had the intestinal fortitude to put your opinion down on the record to be thrashed out openly.

[Phil Carter]

All,

I would to ask, again a sinmpl,e question that may or may not have been overlooked.

Stewart Evans commented that should the Marginalia be auctioned off through a reputable auctioneers, then they would in all likelihood employ their own document expert to authenticate said document. Then we would have a neutral person of unquestionable pedigree on any level making a decision one way or the other.

The question I make, which is yet to be answered, is this..

What happens if the auctioneers said document examiner comes to a contrary conclusionthan that of previous authenticated opinions...just exactly waht will happen then....

Because this is what MAY happen. LIKELY OR NOT. If it does... I'll feel terribly sorry for Nevil Swanson and family.

And I will be looking at others to see what sort of turn-around operation is set in motion.

The latest A-Z mentioned the Confusion theory and the Cohen theory as a way of possibly explaining 7 mistakes in the Marginalia itself, I believe.

IF the unthinable happens... where does that leave good old Aaron Kosminski...



Phil

[Lechmere]

Rob
I see nothing but blinkers from the pro Marginalia brigade and I don’t see any comment on the detailed posts I made questioning some of the supporting documents.
The only reason – the sole reason in my opinion – why this isn’t gone into in a ‘civilised’ manner – is because of the reactionary attitude of some of the pro Marginalia brigade.
They are wholly responsible for the bad taste this may leave in some people’s mouths – in my opinion.

Roy
I’m not anti police and I don’t see that attitude from anyone on here.
I can only guess that in your mind you think that questioning what has gone on in the Scotland Yard Crime Museum translates to being an anti-police hippy.

Just as, to others, suggesting that Dr Davis may have been influenced by outside factors is translated in some people’s minds as questioning his professional competence.
Or simply asking that certain loose ends regarding the marginalia and its provenance should be answered means in some people’s minds that a specific group of people are being accused of forgery – via innuendo of course.

[Ally]

IF the unthinable happens... where does that leave good old Aaron Kosminski...



Phil

Exactly where he is now. With Rob House believing he was the Ripper and nobody else agreeing with him. Kosminski was pointed to and written about as a Ripper suspect long before the Marginalia was even heard of. His candidacy does not rely on the Marginalia at all.

[Observer]

Steve
I don't think its a case of 'no smoke without fire' at all.
I think its a case of not accepting a new historical document without testing it fully and where possible finding answers to all lose ends.

As far as you are concerned what would be the point of testing any of the document relating to the marginalia? You've already made your mind up that the vast majority of said documents are forged!

[The Good Michael]

One to forge the line. One to forge the article. One to sneak it into the Crime museum. One to luckily discover it.

and one forger to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. That's it. Mordor has the answers.

Mike

[robhouse]

Rob
I see nothing but blinkers from the pro Marginalia brigade and I don’t see any comment on the detailed posts I made questioning some of the supporting documents.
The only reason – the sole reason in my opinion – why this isn’t gone into in a ‘civilised’ manner – is because of the reactionary attitude of some of the pro Marginalia brigade.
They are wholly responsible for the bad taste this may leave in some people’s mouths – in my opinion.

Edward, Let's face it. The only reason why you are on a crusade to discredit the Swanson marginalia is because you have an agenda: specifically this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...nal-Green.html

After Adam's article, there really should not have been any more debate over this ridiculous claim that the marginalia is a forgery. You wish it was a forgery, that's the problem.

RH

[The Good Michael]

As far as you are concerned what would be the point of testing any of the document relating to the marginalia? You've already made your mind up that the vast majority of said documents are forged!

Yep. There is a madness here that I cannot understand. It just seems to hit some threads and maybe is the unfortunate nature of the beast when dealing with odd interests like JTR.

Mike

[Phil Carter]

Exactly where he is now. With Rob House believing he was the Ripper and nobody else agreeing with him. Kosminski was pointed to and written about as a Ripper suspect long before the Marginalia was even heard of. His candidacy does not rely on the Marginalia at all.

Hello Ally,

Quite right... but remember.. the marginalia didn't mention AARON Kosminski.. just a Kosminski.

It has been more or less totally assumed that AARON Kosminski was the man that Swanson was writing about.

My question was about Aaron Kosminski. Specifically.

The next question is.. where does it leave Donald Swanson and his comment if the unthinkable happens and the Marginalia is NOT authenticated under the previously mentioned possibility?

Because, like it or not, if those lines are NOT authenticated by the neutral document examiner from the auction house.... the Marginalia becomes virtually worthless, both in monetary value for sale purposes, and more important, for the word of D.S.Swanson and his comments re. The Whitechapel murders.

The case against ANY Kosminski is considerably weakened, from a weak factual position already.

So like I said.. explaining away the "problems" in the Marginalia, as was done in the A-Z by diverting attention away from Kosminski to "Cohen" or "Confusion theory".. really is a scapegoat.. a "just incase".

Wonder what is being lined up presently?.... perhaps another "Kosminski"????

Because as sure as eggs are eggs.. the mess, and let's face it, it has been a mess, that the Marginalia has caused the last 24 years won't be forgotten.
Either way.

And that is why I feel so terribly sorry for Nevil Swanson and his family.

Backing the inherited horse that fails to win, even by a short head, can be very painful indeed.

Monopoloy has a "Get out of jail free" card.

What will the Marginalia produce?



Phil

[Observer]

Yep. There is a madness here that I cannot understand. It just seems to hit some threads and maybe is the unfortunate nature of the beast when dealing with odd interests like JTR.

Mike

Id' say so Michael. It is the madness of digging a great big hole for yourself, and even though you realise that on this occasion you are wrong, you continue to throw out spade full after spade full.

[Ally]

Hello Ally,

Quite right... but remember.. the marginalia didn't mention AARON Kosminski.. just a Kosminski.

It has been more or less totally assumed that AARON Kosminski was the man that Swanson was writing about.

My question was about Aaron Kosminski. Specifically.

And you've answered it. The marginalia did not mention AARON kosminski so absolutely nothing whatsoever changes in regards to him. He remains completely unaffected.

The next question is.. where does it leave Donald Swanson and his comment if the unthinkable happens and the Marginalia is NOT authenticated under the previously mentioned possibility?

Where does it leave Donald Swanson? Again, nowhere. If he didn't write it, he's not affected at all if the marginalia is not authenticated (and again, I have no idea how it will be "authenticated") as I don't believe in voodoo science. Can't really affect a long dead guy. But let's be real. Considering the NOTW article, it's going to be authenticated. It's a lock.

The case against ANY Kosminski is considerably weakened, from a weak factual position already.

How? As I said, books were already written about K before the marginalia came to light, the sole thing that is taken away is this:
that Anderson believed Kosminski was Jack the Ripper. That is it.

The single thing that gets removed from the Kosminski argument is one copper's opinion is no longer known. That is all. How does that seriously weaken the case?

Wonder what is being lined up presently?.... perhaps another "Kosminski"????

Why would this even need to be done???? As you have stated the Marginalia doesn't mention ANY kosminski, so what does it matter? You really buy into this great grand collusion thing, don't you?

Because as sure as eggs are eggs.. the mess, and let's face it, it has been a mess, that the Marginalia has caused the last 24 years won't be forgotten.
Either way.

A statement I can agree with.

Monopoloy has a "Get out of jail free" card.

What will the Marginalia produce?

And back to WTH?

[Trevor Marriott]

There seems to be a serious lack of knowledge from people who wish to discredit the Swansong Marginally. Perhaps a study of Ripper history in the 1970z and 80s would be more beneficial before attempting to bring peoples professionalism and integrity into disrepute. Also a little bit of evidence would be nice instead of the constant stream of unfounded speculation from people with personal agendas.

Rob

Its not unfounded speculation. The reports of the handwriting have not proved it to be authentic for many reasons which have been documented. Despite some believing that to be the case.

As i stated yesterday in a lengthy post to be able to form and opinion based on all that is known, one has to look at everything connected to the marginalia to first ascertain if the content and what that content shows is plausible.

In my opinion the contents and everything connected to it including Andersons book entry which is used by some to authenticate the content of the marginalia suggests that there is something wrong with the marginalia.

Even if the marginalia were re examined by an independent expert his report might also prove to be inconclusive.The reality is that there are simply not enough good quality control samples for any expert to carry out a full and proper examination for the benefit of both sides.

So if anyone is considering buying this book then i would expect them to have considerable knowledge of the case, and with that knowledge I hope that they would be able to see the discrepancies and irregularities which have been highlighted on here.

[Rob Clack]

Rob
I see nothing but blinkers from the pro Marginalia brigade and I don’t see any comment on the detailed posts I made questioning some of the supporting documents.
The only reason – the sole reason in my opinion – why this isn’t gone into in a ‘civilised’ manner – is because of the reactionary attitude of some of the pro Marginalia brigade.
They are wholly responsible for the bad taste this may leave in some people’s mouths – in my opinion.

Ed,

The pro marginallia brigade aren't the ones with blinkers.
Its quite obvious you have your own agenda here. You have already made your mind up that the marginallia is a fake. And you won't hear any reasoned argument to the contary. And just think its sad that peoples names (who can't defend themselves here) are being dragged through the mud then with no evidence whatsoever. And for no other reason then to put doubt in peoples minds.
Anyway you will have to try a lot harder then trying to discredit Druit, Tumblety and Kosminski for people to take Lechmere seriously.

Rob

[Trevor Marriott]

And on we go

The single thing that gets removed from the Kosminski argument is one copper's opinion is no longer known. That is all. How does that seriously weaken the case?

Evidence from an ageing police officer in later years does not equate to the person named being then regarded as a prime suspect, without corroboration and then that corroboration has to be reasonable

[Ally]

I would like to point to the above as someone who is so obsessed and delusional with his own conspiracy that he fails to see that I never actually said that Anderson's opinion matters jack crap whatsoever. Nor does Swanson's.

Good god, it's such farce at this point.