Kinshasa 1974, Ali vs Foreman

[DVV]

You may not like boxing, but the drama is beyond sport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ77LHpUuRY

[Robert]

Another good fight was Hagler v Leonard.

[DVV]

Hagler was my idol when I was a teen, Robert.
I even remember a rather forgotten English boxer named Tony Sibson (if I'm not mistaken), because of him.

[Robert]

Hi David

I think Ali before the war protest was just about unhittable.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hagler was my idol when I was a teen, Robert.
I even remember a rather forgotten English boxer named Tony Sibson (if I'm not mistaken), because of him.

Tony Sibson (Sibbo) was from Leicester and was from a gypsy family.

He could fight. He fought Hagler when Hagler was at his best.

No disgrace in losing to one of the all time greats.

Sibbo is not forgotten in England. He did actually lose to a couple of very average English fighters, but he came from the sort of background which meant he wasn't always well prepared.

He was a very game kid who always went forward, even against Hagler who had a punch like a sledgehammer for his weight.

[DVV]

Tony Sibson (Sibbo) was from Leicester and was from a gypsy family.

He could fight. He fought Hagler when Hagler was at his best.

No disgrace in losing to one of the all time greats.

Sibbo is not forgotten in England. He did actually lose to a couple of very average English fighters, but he came from the sort of background which meant he wasn't always well prepared.

He was a very game kid who always went forward, even against Hagler who had a punch like a sledgehammer for his weight.

Thanks FM, indeed, no disgrace at all, I remember how courageous he has been, and of course nobody could have beaten Hagler at this time. I'm pleased to learn Sibson isn't forgotten.

[DVV]

Hi David

I think Ali before the war protest was just about unhittable.

I was too young or even not born, but this documentary is truly impressive.

[Cogidubnus]

Hero

I think Ali before the war protest was just about unhittable.

He admitted that during his prime, the only guy who'd ever really hurt him was Henry Cooper

C'mon our 'enry, give 'im the left!

All the best

Dave

[Robert]

If it wasn't for the eyes...

[Cogidubnus]

Absolutely Robert...if it wasn't for a hereditary tendency....

But such guts I've honestly never seen...

All the best

Dave

[sdreid]

I remember Ali/Foreman well and the majority thought that Foreman would win I believe. Amazing how boxing has fallen off. Now there are 4 or 5 "World Heavyweight Champions" from various sanctioning bodies and I couldn't name any of them.

The fight I remember most was Clay (Ali) vs. Liston in 1964. Although Sonny Liston is looked on as a rather tragic figure now, in 1964 there was talk that he might be one of the great fighters on the level of a Joe Lewis or Rocky Marciano. I was a senior in high school then and was the only guy I knew in my class that wanted Clay, as he was known then, to win but even I didn't expect it.

I also remember Ali vs. Chuvalo, the fighter that no one could ever knockout. Ali took a decision after pounding on George Chuvalo for the full 12 rounds. There was talk that Chuvalo would have been World Champion for decades had he been born in the era when there were no limits on the number of rounds. The longest fight was 4.5 hours (276 rounds so the rounds must have been quite short) and was bare knuckle! Talk about brain damage.

[DVV]

Amazing how boxing has fallen off. Now there are 4 or 5 "World Heavyweight Champions" from various sanctioning bodies and I couldn't name any of them.

Neither could I, Stan.

[sdreid]

As best I can tell, there are 3 men now recognized as "World Heavyweight Boxing Champion" by the four sanctioning bodies and The Ring Magazine. Two are Ukrainian and the other is Russian.

[Fleetwood Mac]

As best I can tell, there are 3 men now recognized as "World Heavyweight Boxing Champion" by the four sanctioning bodies and The Ring Magazine. Two are Ukrainian and the other is Russian.

There are three that are pretty much meaningless to any boxing fan: WBO, IBF, IBO.

The WBC will always be the most prized belt, and the WBA carries weight.

The problem with all of this is that it disincentives the best to fight the best. You can carry a belt and claim to be the world champion and the best around, while some other boxer does the same.

Everybody wanted to see the Mayweather/Manny fight, but the whole thing is a shambles, and they're arguing about money when they have more money than they could never know what to do with. Personally, I think Mayweather would have won that fight, even before Manny lost his last fight.

Mayweather is probably the best example of why boxing is in a mess. He is one of the all time greats. An outstanding fighter who can box well against any style, has a solid chin, and as with most of the better American boxers he's an artist. But, he sits around with money dominating his thoughts when he could have fought Manny in his prime and shown just how good he is against a very dangerous fighter. As it is, people are scratching their heads wondering about Mayweather and his lack of ambition considering his considerable boxing skills.

You don't get this with British fighters. British fighters don't tend to fight with the style American boxers do, it's part of our culture - rough and ready in the working class areas where our boxers are raised - but, win, lose or draw British boxers go out of their way to test themselves against the best. Take Hatton, he was never going to beat Mayweather because they're not naturally the same weight, and Hatton's style was all about bullying his opponents and pinning them down on the ropes. Mayweather has a much bigger frame than Hatton so he was always going to be able to fend him off.

Hatton didn't need to take that fight knowing there was no one at his weight who could test him. He could have kept picking up the pay cheques, but the English have a lot of heart and what's the point in coasting through life when you can put yourself in the ring with someone who you are unlikely to beat; and find out exactly what you're made of.

It seems that while Mayweather is one of the all time greats, he has nowhere near the heart that boxers such as Hatton and Nigel Benn have.

[Normy]

Hiya all
I think the Hagler vs Mugabi fight was an amazing one, round 6 was just toe to toe. Well worth catching on youtube.
My dad was a postman in the 1970's/80's, he worked on Victoria station. I remember he said he worked alongside a Canadian called Don Mogard who claimed to have fought Marciano to a draw, I think there's conflicting reports on that as I've seen that he lost on points.

Cheers