Royal baby's name

[Errata]

Mia Farrow was in my favorite movie of all time (of which there are seven) The Last Unicorn.

[Ginger]

I'm going on record to say I think his name will be George. Just have a feeling.

I was thinking earlier that they ought to name him George

[Mayerling]

First congradulations to the Royal Family. Historical milestone here - this is the first time since Queen Victoria that the reigning monarch is alive to be a great grandparent (and in this case Elizabeth's consort Philip is also alive - unlike Victoria's Albert).

As for names, I thoroughly agree not to have Albert Victor (or "Eddy") again, nor Prince John or Prince Stephen. Ethelred is also out. I suppose so is Harold (though the last monarch of that name deserved more respect from history). Concentrate on used names - although I tend to feel "Richard" is appropriate (given that the last monarch of that name was just located this past year). If not, how about Alfred (about time they named the future monarch for the one English King nicknamed "the Great")? Or how about Philip for his grandpa?

That's it: Prince Alfred Philip Richard.

Jeff

[kensei]

Wow, not going to be any queens as monarch for quite a long time, are there? It's going to be three kings in a row. And odds-makers were so sure that Kate was having a girl. Many blessings to the happy family though. I wonder if another royal brother or sister will follow within a couple of years.

[RivkahChaya]

"Oops. Not used to that, over here it's kind of one stop shopping."

One stop meaning one country, Washington is a state.

Washington, DC is not a state. There is a Washington state (capital city: Olympia), which is just another of the 50 states. The land that is the District of Columbia belongs to no state. Also, while Canada, and some other commonwealth countries see the British monarch as a figurehead, I don't think she has any real jurisdiction there. I don't think that Canada pays "commonwealth taxes," and I don't think that the Queen has the right to pardon criminals, which it's my understanding she still does in the UK.

Maybe commonwealth nations have some special relationship regarding immigration-- Canadians can move to London, England, and seek employment, without needing any kind of special permission. That I don't know.

But within the UK, Wales really is part of England for all intents and purposes, no matter how much (nor how rightfully) the Welsh people may object. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that Scotland and Ireland are part of Britain, and that Scotland, at least, because so somewhat voluntarily.

The states in the US (and the four that like to call themselves "commonwealths," just to be different) have a great deal more autonomy than Scotland, Wales, and Ireland, although not as much as Canada, or another UK commonwealth.

[Phil H]

Had it been a girl my bet would have been firmly on "Elizabeth" in tribute to the present Queen.

For a boy, be prepared for a surprise, I suggest, but no Waynes Kevins or Brads.

I think one name included, but unlikely to be the first, will be Philip. Philip of Spain (KING consort of Mary Tudor) was not a popular man. Charles is a possibility, especially if the royals know that the current Prince of Wales proposes to reign as George VII.

James is another possibility. Andrew as a middle name would go down well in Scotland as would David in Wales (but undertones of the Duke of Windsor who was always known as David in the family).

My bet as a first name, I think, would on balance be George, in tribute to the Queen's father, George VI.

I remain likely to be proved wrong.

Phil

[kensei]

How about something like "Adam?" A good strong name that's never been used before. I mean, in history was there ever another "Harry"?

[Fleetwood Mac]

Washington, DC is not a state. There is a Washington state (capital city: Olympia), which is just another of the 50 states. The land that is the District of Columbia belongs to no state. Also, while Canada, and some other commonwealth countries see the British monarch as a figurehead, I don't think she has any real jurisdiction there. I don't think that Canada pays "commonwealth taxes," and I don't think that the Queen has the right to pardon criminals, which it's my understanding she still does in the UK.

Maybe commonwealth nations have some special relationship regarding immigration-- Canadians can move to London, England, and seek employment, without needing any kind of special permission. That I don't know.

But within the UK, Wales really is part of England for all intents and purposes, no matter how much (nor how rightfully) the Welsh people may object. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that Scotland and Ireland are part of Britain, and that Scotland, at least, because so somewhat voluntarily.

The states in the US (and the four that like to call themselves "commonwealths," just to be different) have a great deal more autonomy than Scotland, Wales, and Ireland, although not as much as Canada, or another UK commonwealth.

Rivkah,

I think there's a foreign misconception regarding England, Scotland and Wales.

Both Scotland and Wales are in a position to go it alone, and have chosen to not do so.

We are bound together through history to an extent. Scotland, and particularly Wales, have provided a disproprotionate number of soldiers to the British Army, and because of two world wars there is something of a shared sacrifice.

Also, we share pretty much the same culture, more so than say the US and its neighbouring countries.

I was in Scotland recently for a week, and I was suprised by the number of union flags flying from buildings.

I certainly think there's a sense that we have something good going with Britain, even though its inception came about as political convenience, which in my mind really no longer applies. I think many of us are proud of what Britain has achieved, and that includes people from all of its constituent parts.

Having said all of that, if anyone seriously attempted to make our national sport a British team, there'd be uproar from all four corners of this Island.

The Northern Irish are certainly part of the United Kingdom, more voluntarily than anyone as they are bound to Unionism due to the majority religion. Southern Ireland is an entirely different matter.

[Phil H]

Kensei

Harry is short for Henry, and we have had eight King Henrys:

Henry I - a son of William the Conqueror
Henry II - the first Plantagenet - and Angevin married to Eleanor of Aquitaine
Henry III - builder of Westminster Abbey
Henry IV - usurped the throne of his cousin Richard II
Henry V short reign, victor of Agincourt
Henry VI - mentally unstable, deposed 1461, only man to have been crowned king of France and England
Henry VII - first Tudor - usurper - of bastard blood - killed Richard III at Bosworth
Henry VIII - bluff king Hal, married six times.

But within the UK, Wales really is part of England for all intents and purposes,

It now has considerable autonomy and its own Assembly (rather than Parliament). For centuries it was administratively integral to England under Tudor law.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that Scotland and Ireland are part of Britain,

England, Scotland, Wales NORTHERN Ireland comprise the United Kingdom. The Republic of Ireland gained independence c 1922.

Britain is a curious term which seems to have no specific meaning.

and that Scotland, at least, because so somewhat voluntarily.

The CROWNS of England and Scotland were united under James VI (of Scotland) and 1st (of England) in 1603. PARLIAMENTARY Union followed around 1707. Scottish law is distinct as are many other aspects of its culture.

Since the creation of a Scottish Parliament and Executive (Government) Scotland has considerable autonomy apart from defence and foreign policy and total control of taxation.

Phil

[The Good Michael]

Britain is a curious term which seems to have no specific meaning.

I believe it was Geoffrey of Monmouth, ca, 1100?, who claimed that England was first found by two men one of which was named Brutus and that's where Britain comes from. Geoffrey was a nutcase. I think it was named after the Brythonic culture which came from Celtic tribes called the Pretanni...presumably the B and P were changed in later pronunciation? The Brythonic connection continues to this day with Brittany in France, and the Celts living there and in Wales continued trade for a long time. Welsh kings were known to retire on the mainland of France in Brittany as that was sort of the motherland. We're of course talking about Arthurian times and earlier.
Not giving dates here as my memory doesn't include such things, but I should think from the time of Christ until at least the late 6th century there was tons of religious and cultural sharing between the two areas. Of course the same P-Celts lived in Cornwall as well, later becoming separated due to Anglo-Saxon incursions and such.

Mike

[Scott Nelson]

Thaddeus Makepeace Windsor

[Phil H]

The problem now is: what does the term Britain apply to?

Can we talk about the "British Isles" anymore now that Eire is independent?

Is Britain the main island alone? Do Scottish people recognise that as applying to them?

The emergence of quite strongly nationalistic identities in Wales and Scotland means that even the idea of Britishness is in question. If Scotalnd votes for independence next year - whither then?

The concept of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (i.e. the Union of the crowns) might then be the only survival of Britishness.

Phil

[Abby Normal]

I believe it was Geoffrey of Monmouth, ca, 1100?, who claimed that England was first found by two men one of which was named Brutus and that's where Britain comes from. Geoffrey was a nutcase. I think it was named after the Brythonic culture which came from Celtic tribes called the Pretanni...presumably the B and P were changed in later pronunciation? The Brythonic connection continues to this day with Brittany in France, and the Celts living there and in Wales continued trade for a long time. Welsh kings were known to retire on the mainland of France in Brittany as that was sort of the motherland. We're of course talking about Arthurian times and earlier.
Not giving dates here as my memory doesn't include such things, but I should think from the time of Christ until at least the late 6th century there was tons of religious and cultural sharing between the two areas. Of course the same P-Celts lived in Cornwall as well, later becoming separated due to Anglo-Saxon incursions and such.

Mike

Doesnt The name Britain come from the roman name for its territory Brittainia?

[Phil H]

Which in turn originates in the ancient celtic name for the island, PRYDAIN.

[Mayerling]

Kensei

Harry is short for Henry, and we have had eight King Henrys:

Henry I - a son of William the Conqueror
Henry II - the first Plantagenet - and Angevin married to Eleanor of Aquitaine
Henry III - builder of Westminster Abbey
Henry IV - usurped the throne of his cousin Richard II
Henry V short reign, victor of Agincourt
Henry VI - mentally unstable, deposed 1461, only man to have been crowned king of France and England
Henry VII - first Tudor - usurper - of bastard blood - killed Richard III at Bosworth
Henry VIII - bluff king Hal, married six times.

But within the UK, Wales really is part of England for all intents and purposes,

It now has considerable autonomy and its own Assembly (rather than Parliament). For centuries it was administratively integral to England under Tudor law.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that Scotland and Ireland are part of Britain,

England, Scotland, Wales NORTHERN Ireland comprise the United Kingdom. The Republic of Ireland gained independence c 1922.

Britain is a curious term which seems to have no specific meaning.

and that Scotland, at least, because so somewhat voluntarily.

The CROWNS of England and Scotland were united under James VI (of Scotland) and 1st (of England) in 1603. PARLIAMENTARY Union followed around 1707. Scottish law is distinct as are many other aspects of its culture.

Since the creation of a Scottish Parliament and Executive (Government) Scotland has considerable autonomy apart from defence and foreign policy and total control of taxation.

Phil

Hi Phil,

There is a Scotish nationalist movement that is fairly popular. It proposes seperation and the restoration of Edinburgh as the capital. The North Sea oil would help the national economy. One of the big name supporters is actor Sean Connery.

As for Eire, the 1922 agreement allowed it to have it's own Prime Minister and President and Parliament, but split the country in half to protect the Protestant minority in Northern Ireland. Also Eire was to remain in the British Empire (later the Commonwealth). Real total independence did not occur until 1949, when Eamon De Valera (who opposed the 1922 treaty that his rival Michael Collins supported) announced that Eire was leaving the Commonwealth.

Jeff