Just where do we go from here?

[DVV]

As it happens, I am Jew.

That we know.
How many times will you hammer it in front of you computer ?

Instead, go to Mogadiscio and shout it out once.

[DVV]

I've never met a violent Muslim.

So what ? There are none ? Where have you been ?

Have you?

Indeed. My driver shot dead by the friendly Islamic Liberation Front of Oromyya. And I've seen much worse in a school near to Diré-Dawa.
But I hate speaking of my personal experience. It's meaningless.
You've never met any Muslim ready to kill for his religion ?
So what ?
I've never been to Boston myself. Should I not care about this 8 years old child that has been killed ? Was he not real because I've never met him ?

[DVV]

Yet, for all that, they haven't murdered anyone. Why is that? Because the Christian message is still one of peace, as distorted as this particular group makes it.
Mike

True.
And nobody can say Mike is a fanatic Christian.

[Chris]

No I didn't make it up Chris...I was told it by a foreign student on exchange who stayed across the road from me...we were discussing, (among many other things), religion and out this came...

Right. Someone once said it to you. How on earth does that make it the opinion of all 'honest Muslims'?

[Chris]

Errata, I have met many who seem to be pretty far gone.

But not any violent ones? What do you mean by 'far gone', if not?

[Limehouse]

Because Chris, if you ask an honest muslim, "what is the ultimate object of Islam?" he/she will give you an honest answer "the world domination of Islam"...end of...

Dave

With respect Dave, that is also the ultimate objective of Christianity.

I think we have to sit down and think very carefully about why some young men in our society are becoming radicalised in this way. If we make no attempt to understand them, if we just banish them from our shores to some remote island somewhere, then we will not solve the problem. I know some of you think that is 'wishy-washy left-wing-do-gooding, but seriously, it has to be done. That does not mean that these young men should not be accountable for their actions and punished accordingly, but if we want to prevent this kind of thing escalating, we have to work on prevention from within the communities.

[DVV]

With respect Dave, that is also the ultimate objective of Christianity.

Sorry, but you can't compare.
Islam is both political and religious.
While Jesus said : "Give back to César...etc"

Best regards

[Ally]

Sorry, but you can't compare.
Islam is both political and religious.
While Jesus said : "Give back to César...etc"

Best regards

Christianity is also political. Why do you think abortions are illegal in Ireland? It's not because they are a secular country. Why do you think so many people are attempting to outlaw gay marriage, abortion, gay adoption, etc in this country? It's not because they are atheists. My country is controlled by people who are primarily Christian, and they push their Christian social agenda onto the rest of us and attempt to legislate it.

So Christianity is as political as Islam, it's just that in our particular countries, secular governments put a nice sheen of separation on church and state. And the separation into secularlism is relatively recent in most European countries as well, where they used to be dominated by the church.

[Ally]

Secondly, while I don't know about an "Amish" way, I've never met a violent Muslim. Have you? Who here has?

I have. As a teacher I've met plenty. Both students and parents. I've met muslim parents who in the United States of America fail to believe that schizophrenia is a real disease and attempt to beat the devil out of their child and refuse to allow them to be medicated. We actually called the FBI on one parent who sat in our office and hurled insult after insult at the United States and are immoral heathenry while taking advantage of all the free special services their child wouldn't have access to in their own craptacular country. And this was like 3 months after 9/11, right outside of Washington DC so really a tone deaf dumbass ignorant piece of trash if ever there was one.

[DVV]

Christianity is also political. Why do you think abortions are illegal in Ireland? It's not because they are a secular country. Why do you think so many people are attempting to outlaw gay marriage, abortion, gay adoption, etc in this country? It's not because they are atheists. My country is controlled by people who are primarily Christian, and they push their Christian social agenda onto the rest of us and attempt to legislate it.

So Christianity is as political as Islam, it's just that in our particular countries, secular governments put a nice sheen of separation on church and state. And the separation into secularlism is relatively recent in most European countries as well, where they used to be dominated by the church.

Whatever you may say, it's different.
The only Christian state that can be compared, in terms of intolerancy, was that of Calvin. He's dead, it's past.
Anyway...

Christians don't call non-Christian territories "Dar al-harb".
Quite a difference.

There are no dhimmis for Christians.
Another crucial difference.

Certainly, in some countries Christian morality still has its influence.
But nothing to be compared to Sharia, who put its nose into every aspect of life. It tells you what to eat and how to poop.

We do build mosques for Muslims in the Western world.
According to islamic laws, it's forbidden to build churches. At best, the Christian dhimmis can use churches that were there before islam.

Etc, etc.

So all in all, life is easier for Muslims in the western world than for Christians in Muslim countries.

Because there are essential différences between those two religions.

[Ally]

[QUOTE=DVV;262281]

Whatever you may say, it's different.
The only Christian state that can be compared, in terms of intolerancy, was that of Calvin. He's dead, it's past.
Anyway...

Uh right. Have you heard of the Spanish Inquisition? Have you heard of the Christian crusades? It might be past but it's not dead and all it needs is one little spark and I guarantee Christians are capable of being just as a-holey as any Muslim.

Christians don't call non-Christian territories "Dar al-harb".
Quite a difference.

Yes quite a difference. Back in the day they called it "Heathen land" and set out to conquer and convert all the non-believers. Such a difference.

There are no dhimmis for Christians.
Another crucial difference.

Actually I am not sure of your point. Dhimmi provides for protection from the law for non-believers. This is, theoretically a good thing. It is no different in that term than a non-believer living in the USA and or law that says they can't be denied a job based on their religion. So how is that different at all?

Certainly, in some countries Christian morality still has its influence.
But nothing to be compared to Sharia, who put its nose into every aspect of life. It tells you what to eat and how to poop.

And I agree that Sharia law, as applied to government of people is a bad, bad thing. But you are wrong if you think Christians are just passively attempting to promote their religion and not in fact attempting to legislate it. If it were not so, there would not be a huge deal when we had a Mormon run for president over here. And technically so does the Judeo-Christian religion in terms of what to eat and when to poop, just most of them ignore it.

So all in all, life is easier for Muslims in the western world than for Christians in Muslim countries.

Because there are essential différences between those two religions.

No there really aren't essential differences between the two religions. What's different is the people who choose to practice them and the fact that by and large, the economic opportunities in the Christian countries have allowed for more exposure and cross-pollination over time with differing beliefs and opportunities and systems.

If Christians followed Christianity to the letter, there would be no essential difference between Sharia law and Christian law. But the majority of Christians, for whatever reason choose to ignore the parts that don't fit in with modern convenience and attitudes and do more selective cherry picking that do Muslims.

[DVV]

[QUOTE=Ally;262282]

Uh right. Have you heard of the Spanish Inquisition? Have you heard of the Christian crusades?

Haha !

I wondered at what time the Inquisition and the Crusades would come.

It sure proves the Gospel and the Koran carry the same message.

And that Jesus and Muhammad have both killed and raped.

Actually, the Gospel is more hypocrite than the Koran and the Sira, in this respect.

It doesn't proudly talk about the murders and rapes committed by Jesus and his apostles.

Following your absurd reasoning, I can take the example of any atheist murderer, and tell you that atheism is a blood-thirsty philosophy.

Mouarff.

[Smoking Joe]

[URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10080028/Woolwich-attack-How-far-is-Britain-willing-to-go-to-prevent-modern-jihadis.html"

Interesting piece ,if anyones has few minutes to spare......if this links works that is.

[DVV]

[QUOTE=Ally;262282]

If Christians followed Christianity to the letter, there would be no essential difference between Sharia law and Christian law.

Nope, there is no Christian law.

On the contrary, we are told that : "La lettre tue, l'esprit vivifie".

[DVV]

No there really aren't essential differences between the two religions.

I beg your pardon ?

By which miracle would there be no essential différences between two different religions ?

It's written in the Koran : "The Muslim must be good to the Muslims, hard with the non-Muslim"

Whereas Jesus said : "Love your ennemy"

Not an essential difference ?

Just an example, of course.

It's not because you don't like religions that they are all the same.

You're even welcome to hate them for different reasons, since they are all different.