London Footage

[Normy]

Nice clip of London:

http://vimeo.com/7638752

[Cogidubnus]

What a cracking find Normy...and how sobering that despite the colour process, virtually everyone in that film is probably now no more...even those bright young things...

All the best

Dave

[Normy]

Hi Cogidubnus
Yes it's illuminating though all too short, lives momentarily caught on camera.

I was looking for a programe from the 1970's on home movies.
I'm sure the internet is bursting with more gems, we just have to find them.

Regards
Normy

[Monty]

Seen before but Hey, its Friday

Petticoat Lane 1903 - http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=tTjzryR7FSg

Petticoat Lane 1926 - http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature...&v=vzeBDcmrjjY

A short film by Philip Hutchinson, inspired by Rob Clack and his book, Jack the Ripper, Then and Now - http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=sh02pH_HOsw

Monty

[Normy]

Hiya all
Wow some really nice clips there.
There's some on this site too:

http://www.bermondseyboy.net/

Sorry if I'm uploading sites/clips that have been posted already, hopefully there's something new or of interest.

I'm sure there's plenty of this on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiZFyYkcnf4

Interesting as it looks as if he's got the union flag around the wrong way!
My dad always said he and his sisters were at the battle of cable street, he said their father took them along. He told me the police arrived on buses and threw pennies to the children. When Mosely turned up in the back of a chicken wire covered lorry the crowds pelted it with bricks and bottles.
Looking at the footage it seems Mosely was prevented from marching so I wonder if my dad really saw what he thinks he remembered as he would only have been around 5 years old at the time!

[Mayerling]

Great pictures from 1927 London. Hard to imagine that those people included some who probably were alive in 1888.

There is a film with Robert Donat about the father of the creator of the color process in these films, William Friese-Greene, called THE MAGIC BOX. It was a good biography (even if you wonder if Friese-Greene was the actual inventor of motion pictures).

Jeff

[Normy]

Hi Mayerling

I know the film, saw it 20 years ago. I think I'm right in saying there's a scene in the film that's similar to the clip: where a policeman approaches the camera (played by a young Lawrence Olivier).
I shudder when I think my grandparents would have known London in the conditions of 1900. It wasn't that long ago.

[DrummondStreet]

Amazing! Thanks for posting it. I expected all of the light colored structures (e.g. Marble Arch) to be dark with soot, but I guess not. Love the fashion of the day, too.

[Phil H]

I shudder when I think my grandparents would have known London in the conditions of 1900. It wasn't that long ago.

But don't we always accept the society and "conditions" in which we live as a norm? We may strive to better them in some ways, we may appreciate that they are imperfect, but by and large we accept the standards and conventions as familiar and "comforting".

Thus East Enders very much regretted the loss post-war of their back-to-back two-up-two-down terraced houses, for all their slum qualitiy, because they were used to them and the close-knit society they had created.

Looking back we may see the past as bleak, lacking modern conveniences, as violent, disease ridden, etc yet that was the world that those who lived in it had grown up with. Medieval man or woman might not wish to echange that for a modern world they would see as frightening, extremely noisy, uncertain and without faith or social structure.

I have known many people who looked back with regret that a rural world, or a less technical past had been replaced by a world that seemed alien to them.

Philosophically, of course, the same ideas merge with the (in my view stupid) modern practice of "apologising" for what are perceived (usually by the politically correct brigade) as past sins. Yet those "sins" were often the conventional wisdoms of their day, broadly accepted and even believed in by the majority at the time for sufficient reasons for them. Who are we to second guess them, or believe that we are in some measure "better".

Modern society is wonderful, or seems to be, in many western countries, but I do not blind myself to the fact that in 150 years (assuming no global catastrophe) people may well say "how could they have lived in those conditions then"!

Phil

[Normy]

Hiya Phil H
Interesting point, yes I guess I’m thinking from my own perspective and not from the people’s who were in the situation at the time. Though those who experienced change of housing from a small flat in a row of terraced houses to a council flat certainly welcomed and appreciated the differences, I know my family did.
They may well have felt comfortable in those conditions at the time because it was the world they knew.
I can’t help but think that many would feel they were in, inescapable misery being so close to the richer and well off world of the city and gentry.
I know you can say that people are in that situation now, or feel they are. Though I see a larger rich-poor divide then than I do now.
I suppose it’s mostly a state of mind, you can be unhappy with your lot anywhere in any living condition.

[Phil H]

My understanding was - and there was a famous sociological study of the issue I read in the 60s - that the move to tower blocks and high rise apartments, was regretted, broke up communities and alientated individuals - especially the old. But I do not, of course, challenge your personal experience and knowledge.

I think thr 1880s (and later) had a much more structured, hierarchical society than anything since the war. While there may have been envy in some quarters, and a wish to better themselves, I think there was far more acceptance of rank, role and position than we would be happy with today.

Phil

[Normy]

Hi Phil H

What you say makes sense, from my memory my family were very happy to move to a flat that had 3 bedroom rather than the 2 we had in the flat. We also had an inside toilet and bathroom with toilet.
In the old flat I had to bath as an infant, in the sink which was in front of our kitchen window. This overlook the gardens of everyone on our side of the street! The toiletwas outside and I guess communal, I had a bucket in the bedroom in case of emergencies.
I don't remember that we knew so many families in our street, a few come to mind but not a great deal.

In the new flat we knew a couple of families on our landing, not so many. So the community wasn't that big to us in either accomodation.
My memory of the old flat is very shaky though, it was a long time ago.
It was in Brymer Road off the Old Kent Rd (wish I had a map of it) it was all knocked down to build a park and lake.
We ended up on the Aylesbury. Very large flats, that's the positive side, along with the modern facilities, it was outside the flats that it wasn't so pleasant.
I imagine there would have been much more gossip and less privacy as the comings and goings of the street would be for all to know, while the estate was without community it's true.
Cheers

[Mayerling]

Hi Phil and Normy,

Actually the situation was normal for all western (and I suspect eastern) countries due to the hopes of improving life. My family came from eastern and middle Europe (Russian - Poland, Hungary, and Germany) and England (Birmingham) and came together on the lower East Side. A few remained there, and others moved to the Bronx. My four grandparents ended up in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn, and my parents lived there until after my birth - then they, my sister and me moved to the developement of Pomonok in Flushing in Queens. So did my mother's parents. While we visited my father's mother and sister in Brooklyn still we really never missed it totally (I did not recall it, and my parents and sister never cared much for it despite associations they might recall). That spirit of community was there in Brooklyn - some relatives and friends lived there for another decade. But all soon moved out. Once that happened nobody looked back.

My father's mother's apartment was a nice one on the third floor of a brownstone, but it was one you had to walk up to. No elevators! I never liked that. Similarly his aunt and uncle and cousin lived two blocks away and although in a larger "apartment" house (five floors) the staircase only got to me. But here the apartments in Brooklyn did have indoor plumbing and bathrooms. I never knew any relatives who used a privy.

By the way Normy, you mentioned Brymer Road off the Old Kent Road. Isn't there an old popular British tune about the "Old Kent Road"?

Jeff

[Normy]

Hi Mayerling
I imagine it was time of great change for many people.
Maybe being young I didn't realise how the changes would effect us, we had a new flat which I remember my talked a lot about. Socially we didn't seem to mingle as a family but also the television seemed to play a greater part in the flat. It could also be that the vastness of the estate (when it was built in 1971 the Aylesbury was the biggest in Europe, or so I was told) alienated the individuals and we didn't mingle so much. It also seemed that families would come and go more frequently, maybe housing could have been an issue with the people being rehoused seemed a speedier process.
I think one of the initial points being that we did accept our lot in the poorer original flat, but my parents certainly thought they saw a better life on the estate.

I think maybe you are thinking of this song, here's a local version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohi_8ThTPTg

Cheers

Normy

[Mayerling]

Hi Normy

Thank you. It was the tune "Knocked em in the Old Kent Road".

Jeff