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House of horror in Cleveland

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  • House of horror in Cleveland

    I see no one else has started a thread on it after a couple of days so I guess I'll venture one. In Cleveland, Ohio, three girls in their teens to early 20s went missing over time a decade ago, seemingly unrelated cases. This week, they all turned up alive, held prisoner all this time in a house in a residential neighborhood. Their names are Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, and Michelle Knight. Their kidnapper's name is Ariel Castro, a Cleveland bus driver in his 50s.

    Let's not mince words here, this is gruesome and nasty and makes a person's skin crawl. These three women have been held as captives and sex slaves and God knows what else for ten years in a house surrounded by other houses and other people. Amanda Berry suddenly made a 911 call on a neighbor's phone after somehow managing to escape to the front door when Castro wasn't home and kicking out the screen and screaming her lungs out until someone heard and responded. The exact details have yet to be released as to how it went down, but I get the impression it was like- after ten years of this life, he one day somehow forgot to click one of the padlocks into place.

    The women are free now, Castro is in custody and he is going to go down in flames, hard. He has two brothers who were briefly suspects also but now It's been announced there are no charges against them. His family swears they had no idea. FOR TEN YEARS?!!! The womens' families are of course overjoyed to be reunited with their loved ones they had assumed were dead. And there is also a six-year-old child, daughter of Amanda Berry apparently. And talk of other babies who died. It couldn't be any more sad.

    It's also reported that there were times over the years when neighbors did call police when they observed suspicious things about the house, but the police response was always insufficient or non-existent. Amazing, just absolutely amazing and unbelievable that this could happen in a place surrounded by hundreds of people. For Casebook purposes, it puts me in mind of Whitechapel and how many people must have seen things and heard things and never said anything, or had their reports ignored. Jack the Ripper, the Torso killer (who must have had a private dwelling where he did his work), and by the way that's IF Jack and Torso weren't the same person, which is a theory I hold as possible. This is an extreme example of how much depravity can go on in broad daylight with people all around and go this long before it comes to light. It makes a person wonder- with the number of missing people, how many more settings are there with something like this going on?

    Absolutely horrifying.
    Last edited by kensei; 05-09-2013, 11:27 AM.

  • #2
    Shades of the Peter Tobin case here in the UK.

    Graham
    We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

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    • #3
      No more steaks and girls for Castro.

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      • #4
        Another case of people not wanted to wanting to get involved and police that couldn't be bothered. Shades of the police returning an escaped prisoner to Dahlmer who promptly killed and ate him.
        And the questions always linger, no real answer in sight

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        • #5
          The last I heard on the news yesterday was the police were lookiing into another missing girl, a 14 year old, who vanished in 2008. Same area as the other three, but she is not in the house. Related or not?

          Jeff

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          • #6
            I'm sure it's possible other women died.

            Something that was meant to be slightly amusing in the context of the TV show it was on, but I always remember with a bit of a jolt anytime something like this is in the news: Michael Moore did an experiment (uncontrolled, and not really scientific) for his TV show TV Nation, IIRC, shortly after the Dahmer case broke, and lots of his neighbors were quoted saying they never noticed anything unusual. Moore said this is what people always say.

            So he bought a house in a middle class suburb. They he let it get weird. It was subtle at first. He'd run noisy power tools in the middle of the night. He put black trash bags up over all the windows. After about a week, he painted half the garage red. Then he started having 50 gallon drums delivered. He'd have three delivered on Monday, and picked up Friday, blue hazardous waste drums, like the kind Dahmer used for disposing bodies. Occasionally, there'd be piercing screams from the house.

            One evening before trash day, he took a mattress to the curb with a huge red stain in the center.

            The he brought in a backhoe, and started digging up the front yard.

            After about six weeks of that, he had members of his crew interview the neighbors, who, to a person, claimed not to have noticed anything unusual happening at the house.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by kensei View Post
              He has two brothers who were briefly suspects also but now It's been announced there are no charges against them. His family swears they had no idea. FOR TEN YEARS?!!! Absolutely horrifying.
              Yes, this is seriously weird.

              How could they not have known?
              allisvanityandvexationofspirit

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              • #8
                The last I heard on the news yesterday was the police were lookiing into another missing girl, a 14 year old, who vanished in 2008. Same area as the other three, but she is not in the house. Related or not?
                Hi Jeff

                A report (which I saw on the google news feed earlier today) referred to an alleged grafitto on a wall inside the house wherein was written RIP followed by a name...which wasn't quoted...not sure if this "Star" reporting though!

                All the best

                Dave

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                • #9
                  Do you think you would know if your neighbor was holding someone prisoner, was a serial killer, or even abusing his children to the point of it being a felony? I'm sure we'd all like to think we would, but honestly?

                  The guy next door, who I've only met once, and I think works the night shift some place, just because the only time I see him is when he appears to be coming home around the time I take my son to school (8:15am), was using power tools at an odd time of day a couple of weeks ago, around 7:30pm. It was a weekend. I briefly thought of Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors saying that they heard him using power tools a lot, at odd times, but they thought maybe he built bookcases as a sideline.

                  I suppose this guy's night work could be dealing drugs, or pimping, and he was disposing of a rival, but it's a lot more likely he just works the third shift at a factory, or a 24-hr convenience store, and 7:30pm is like mid-afternoon to him. On a weekend, it really wasn't too late to bother anyone.

                  I went to school with a kid who looked creepily like a kid on a milk carton (a missing child thing in the US for a while), but aside from the fact that he was the wrong age, because it was an old picture, my family knew his family well enough to know when he'd been born. If he'd been a little closer in age to the kid, and coincidentally, adopted, or just a home birth, someone might have reported him, and caused an investigation.

                  These criminals go a long way to hide their criminal activity, and victims either never had a chance, or complied with captivity, because in their judgment it was their best chance for survival. I think it's a little harsh to blame the neighbors. Blame the criminal.

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                  • #10
                    I do blame the criminal of course, but it's surprising to say the least that either Castro's family members never visited his house for ten years, or that if they did he was able to keep everything hidden. Plus, there were witnesses to strange things, such as some teenagers who actually saw a naked young woman on her hands and knees being led through the back yard by a dog collar (apparently one of a very few times any of the victims were out of the house). They called the cops. The cops thought it was a joke because they were teenagers and didn't come. Another time one of the women was seen at a window apparently trying to get out. The cops came that time, but when they pounded on the door for several minutes and no one answered they just gave up and left. It's frustrating.

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                    • #11
                      People always think teenagers are up to no good, and "A guy is walking a woman around hid backyard on a leash," does sound like, in order of probability 1) a prank call; 2) teenagers not realizing they're watching bondage foreplay; 3) a whole lot of things more likely than a woman being held a against her will, like someone learning how to use a service dog.

                      The problem of teenagers not being taken seriously is bigger than this situation, but police can't enter a residence without exigent circumstances, or a warrant. If the police had gotten there in time to see the woman on the leash, that would have been exigent circumstances, if the police agreed it looked like someone being held against her will.

                      The only time not answering the door is exigent circumstances is when there has been a 911call from inside the house, or if the police smell smoke, or gas, or there has been a threat made.

                      I mean, there's a little bit more-- if your diabetic relative, or relative with a heart condition lives there, and hasn't shown up for work in two days, and isn't answering the phone, the police can enter if you request a welfare check.

                      But if the police screw this up, entering without a warrant or exigent circumstances, the case can be thrown out of court. Of course, if that happened here, the women would still be free, but the police are required to think about things from all angles.

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                      • #12
                        In France comments about the case have stupidly turned into a debate about violence in American society, although there have been similar cases in Europe (Belgium, Austria, etc).
                        Poor country (France, I mean)

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                        • #13
                          Police where I live have told me that when any 911 call comes in, by law they HAVE TO respond. I once lived above a person who (as explained to me by my landlord) had mental problems and wasn't taking her meds, who was convinced that I was deliberately harassing her with noise even though I was being as quiet as possible and doing everything I could to avoid her. She called the police on me around a dozen times and it got to where the first thing they would do when I answered the door was apologize to me for being there again, especially the time when a noise complaint came in on me when I was fast asleep. Anyway, point being, even they knew the person was crazy they had to respond when she called. They may not have been required to get me to open the door, but they at least had to show up.

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                          • #14
                            Have seen amazing footage now of Castro's family members reacting to everything. His mother, his daughter. They don't deny his guilt. The mother was freaking out in Spanish, basically saying my son's done a terrible thing and I had no idea and it's nothing to do with me but he's still my son and I love him and I pray for him. And the daughter, very lucidly and in English, told a reporter that she disowns him now and that he is dead to her.

                            Castro apparently had a common law wife who he physically abused quite brutally. She's deceased now from cancer. And whereas I wrote before how odd it was that none of his relatives could have visited him at his home for an entire decade-- well, now it's been said that apparently they did. The captive women were there, chained up in rooms upstairs, and Castro would have visitors over but just not allow them to go upstairs. And the women were so terrorized that they never made noise, never called out for help. Unbelievable.

                            He has confessed to some of it, but apparently not all. It's coming out bit by bit now, and there is talk of how the women were impregnated multiple times and how he would starve them and punch them in the stomach when they were pregnant until they miscarried. Only one was allowed to be born, a six-year-old girl who was found in the home along with the three prisoners and is being considered a fourth kidnap victim. There is a cross planted in the ground in the back yard as if a dead baby might be buried there, and one of the victims has talked about a possible fourth victim who was there when she was first kidnapped but then gone. What happened to her? Castro appears to be not only a kidnapper and rapist but also a murderer. The forced miscarriages alone are spawning talk of the death penalty. Wow, this is one pure evil villain and I think a new chapter has just been opened in the history of American crime.

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                            • #15
                              Not every single 911 call needs a dispatch. Once, some kids were playing on the phone in our synagogue, and managed to call 911, then hung up. 911 called back. I was the one who noticed the caller ID, on Shabbes, so I didn't answer, but I got the rabbi, and she got it straightened out without a dispatch.

                              Another time, I was setting up a speed-dial for my father when he was very ill. They way it worked, if he dialed any number without dialing # first, he got 911. I wanted to test it to see if I'd programmed it right (it was a program on a cordless landline from 15 years ago you probably can't get anymore; now you'd just download an app for your cell phone). Anyway, I called to test it, and the insert in the phone even advised on non-peak times for 911, which were good times to call. After I explained very briefly what I was doing, they said OK, and hung up. No dispatch.

                              In the case of the crazy neighbor, they may have dispatched, because she'd just keep calling, and also because they were afraid she might take matters into her own hands if they didn't. I would think you could make a harassment complaint against her.

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