U.S. Capitol Placed on Lockdown as Election Protests Grow Violent

[caz]

One of the first claims Trump did on camera in 2016 was, extend his arms and claim, "..how I love the uneducated!".

Well, we always knew he loved himself, Jon.

Reminds me of the old joke about why the Pope wears trunks in the bath - he doesn't want to look down on the unemployed.

[caz]

These people will continue to grow as long as the social and financial well being of a large number of Americans continue to drop. So the only way to fix this is improve the quality of life in America. If more people live a good life, there will be fewer of these groups. Lack of social and financial well being leads to poor education, hopelessness, fearfulness, susceptibility to wild theories, etc., all the trademarks of these groups. And when their hopelessness and desperation reach the lowest point where they feel they have "nothing to lose," they do and say wild things, unsurprisingly. If the economy doesn't pick up fast, expect this to continue. Yes, you bet the Dems will take the blame if this situation doesn't improve on their watch. Whenever bad things happen, the incumbent party always takes the rap. It happened to Trump and the GOP, and it would happen to Dems the next 4 years if certain key things didn't improve (refer to the "13 keys" I mentioned earlier).

And calling these groups "terrorists" would be an insult to real terrorists! The kind of terrorism we have faced since 9/11 is organized, well-planned, and formidable. Do these adjectives really describe the Capitol Hill protestors?? If we called them terrorists, then those who piss on the sidewalk or smash windows with trashcans would be terrorists too! The people yesterday were some of the weakest people we have, both in minds and bodies and overall well-being.

The people who lack social, educational and financial privileges are being shamefully exploited, by those who need all the 'support' they can get to push their own selfish political agenda. They don't care about these people or their well being. They use them, then wash their hands of them when they go too far. Cannon fodder.

[YomRippur]

This has nothing to do with economic well-being, it's a cultural problem on the american right that has this generally unpleasant mix of guns, god, anti-science and government wrapped in white supremacy. There are plenty of $60K trucks at Trump rallys and Trump's enablers in the House and Senate who voted to object to the result of a democratic election AFTER the Capitol had been stormed by Trump supporters can not reasonably be called destitute. Likewise, urban areas where there is economic hardship have not been captured by craziness that is Trumpism.

the first time I noticed that there was something fishy going on in american politics is when this senator came into the chamber with a snow-ball in the middle of February as "proof" that global warming did not exist. The next thing was when in 2010 I asked a colleague of mine from Arizona what he thought of US citizens finally getting universal Health care, he said he hated it because it took away his freedom to chose his own health care (or lack thereof). Then you throw in Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Fox News and you have your reasons for the rise of Trumpism. All indications are it will get even worse. People are flocking over to Newsmax because it seems that Fox is no longer crazy enough for them. So, people are constantly being subjected to crazy sh!t and there is no end in sight. Things will not improve until there is a consensus that News and information on political events need to be fact-based and yes, I agree that this is difficult to achieve because you would need to accept some kind of arbiter which likely to be a deal breaker for most people. Trump was right in one thing: The swamp needs to be drained but it must be from the grass-roots and anti-democratic senators and house-members need to be primaried and voted out of office. This way, a new generation of politicians will bubble-up into government. For example, I always wonder how someone like Louie Gohmert gets elected. I mean, how is this even possible? His continuous re-election is probably a good indicator on why the current electoral system is failing the country. Figure out why HE gets elected, fix the problem and the future will probably look a lot brighter.

Economic problems are more DIRECT than cultural problems: if you can't eat, you go crazy, simple as that. Trump's base is poorer and less educated, and the American economy has also been in a downfall, with wage stagnation and widening wealth gap. And some people in this group are in (much) worse financial shape than others, and could become volatile in the right circumstance such as yesterday, because they feel they had "nothing to lose" and could go out in a blaze of glory. You saw those people on TV, and their very appearance cried out for special treatment, like the freaky dude with viking hat. You can easily guess that these people were marginally employed at best and likely had health issues and lacked proper care. All this started with economic hardship, my friend.

30 years ago, white Americans had the highest income, wealth, best health, lowest unemployment, best standing in every social index. Today, it is Asian Americans who are in that position instead; even Trump tweeted about it. Go to any big American city and find me a beggar or homeless person on the street who is Asian -- you can't. This is another economic factor that fed into the resentment and anger of the most vociferous Trump supporters. Throughout history, there have been two things that drove human behavior: the economic driver, and the war driver. We go to war because we don't want to die. And we want economic prosperity because we don't want to die poor. Nearly all the struggles between the two parties are about them fighting over which side should get how much money.

P.S. Regarding your comment about these people having $60k cars, I don't care if they have $100k cars or live in mansions. You can't see their true financial well being by just looking at their possessions. We've all heard stories about people putting up a facade of living well and then one day all their possessions are foreclosed and their neighbors are in shock, and then it turns out they have nothing but debts.

[rjpalmer]

You saw those people on TV, and their very appearance cried out for special treatment, like the freaky dude with viking hat. You can easily guess that these people were marginally employed at best and likely had health issues and lacked proper care. All this started with economic hardship, my friend.

That nut-case in the wolf costume and the walking stick is the son of a wealthy and prominent judge in Brooklyn, New York. (See link) His elevator doesn't appear to go all the way to the top floor, but he's hardly a member of an economically depressed underclass.

And one of the women arrested, who happens to be from my neck-of-the-woods, was an affluent Trump campaign lobbyist who had organized a Trump Boat Parade in Portland, Oregon.

I'm not entirely disputing your sentiments, but, in my humble opinion--and the jury is still out; we'll be analyzing this for years---Trump appealed to a more fundamental aspect of the reptilian brainstem than mere economic need; like a parasite, he noticed that Kulturkampf has been fomenting for years, egged-on by partisan "news" pundits; he took advantage of it to invade and infiltrate a major political party.

Trump Fur-Ever: Costumed Capitol Rioter Is Son Of Brooklyn Supreme Court Judge - Gothamist

[Simon Wood]

"Go home. We love you. You're really special."

And the next day a bus came along.

"To those who engaged in the acts of violence and destruction, you do not represent our country, and to those who broke the law, you will pay."

[DJA]

Well, we always knew he loved himself, Jon.

Reminds me of the old joke about why the Pope wears trunks in the bath - he doesn't want to look down on the unemployed.

He makka the rules,but no playa the game.

[YomRippur]

That nut-case in the wolf costume and the walking stick is the son of a wealthy and prominent judge in Brooklyn, New York. (See link) His elevator doesn't appear to go all the way to the top floor, but he's hardly a member of an economically depressed underclass.

And one of the women arrested, who happens to be from my neck-of-the-woods, was an affluent Trump campaign lobbyist who had organized a Trump Boat Parade in Portland, Oregon.

I'm not entirely disputing your sentiments, but, in my humble opinion--and the jury is still out; we'll be analyzing this for years---Trump appealed to a more fundamental aspect of the reptilian brainstem than mere economic need; like a parasite, he noticed that Kulturkampf has been fomenting for years, egged-on by partisan "news" pundits; he took advantage of it to invade and infiltrate a major political party.

Trump Fur-Ever: Costumed Capitol Rioter Is Son Of Brooklyn Supreme Court Judge - Gothamist

Cultural struggles and ideologies come and go, but economic struggles always stay. And Trump's strong suit happens to be economy (at least he is perceived that way). When people fear what they own is being taken away, it is an existential threat for them (even for affluent people), and it makes them look for someone to blame. And THAT brings out the cultural strife you mentioned. The starting point is always money and economic well-being.

[Varqm]

The joke was Afghanistan,Iran,Iraq and Libya were going to send policemen to Washington D.C to protect democracy.

[YomRippur]

rjpalmer wrote:

That nut-case in the wolf costume and the walking stick is the son of a wealthy and prominent judge in Brooklyn, New York. (See link) His elevator doesn't appear to go all the way to the top floor, but he's hardly a member of an economically depressed underclass.

And one of the women arrested, who happens to be from my neck-of-the-woods, was an affluent Trump campaign lobbyist who had organized a Trump Boat Parade in Portland, Oregon.

I'm not entirely disputing your sentiments, but, in my humble opinion--and the jury is still out; we'll be analyzing this for years---Trump appealed to a more fundamental aspect of the reptilian brainstem than mere economic need; like a parasite, he noticed that Kulturkampf has been fomenting for years, egged-on by partisan "news" pundits; he took advantage of it to invade and infiltrate a major political party.

Trump Fur-Ever: Costumed Capitol Rioter Is Son Of Brooklyn Supreme Court Judge - Gothamist

Cultural struggles and ideologies come and go, but economic struggles always stay. And Trump's strong suit happens to be economy (at least he is perceived that way). When people fear what they own is being taken away, it is an existential threat for them (even for affluent people), and it makes them look for someone to blame. And THAT brings out the cultural strife you mentioned. The starting point is always money and economic well-being.

Forgot to address your first point about some of these people seemingly having good financial shape. Again, we can't based this on appearances alone. Even if you have a good job and live in a nice house, you could still run into hard times financially. This writer lives in the Hamptons and at one point he couldn't come up with $400 for an emergency. Then he read a Federal Reserve study that said that 47% Americans had been in the same boat.

[rjpalmer]

Cultural struggles and ideologies come and go, but economic struggles always stay. And Trump's strong suit happens to be economy (at least he is perceived that way). When people fear what they own is being taken away, it is an existential threat for them (even for affluent people), and it makes them look for someone to blame. And THAT brings out the cultural strife you mentioned. The starting point is always money and economic well-being.

Sorry, but I can't get on board that train.

The philosopher Karl Popper once argued that Marxism is a pseudo-science, because it is non-falsifiable. Anything--every human conflict--can be seen as 'economic,' or a 'class struggle,' even if the facts suggest otherwise. Just as Freud simplified every human behavior to be about sex.

But not every case of civil unrest is a bread riot disguised as something else. There have been armed conflicts where two sides had little or no economic stress. There are battles in primate societies where the food source is abundant.

One of the rioters inside the capitol was married to a doctor. Was he under economic stress? Maybe, but there is no evidence for it.

I think Trumpism is about perceived status and social identity, which has an economic component, but is more elemental. Even a wealthy doctor or the son of a supreme court judge can think his identity is being challenged...even if his bank account is fine and his job secure. No one is going to riot if he thinks he may go broke 10 years from now...

But he may riot if he thinks his 'status' and cultural beliefs are being attacked by an imaginary enemy. Especially when he’s been whipped into a frenzy by a charismatic charlatan.

The man who beat the police officer to death in D.C. was radicalized by ideological demagogues. Was that economic? I don’t think so.

[YomRippur]

Sorry, but I can't get on board that train.

The philosopher Karl Popper once argued that Marxism is a pseudo-science, because it is non-falsifiable. Anything--every human conflict--can be seen as 'economic,' or a 'class struggle,' even if the facts suggest otherwise. Just as Freud simplified every human behavior to be about sex.

But not every case of civil unrest is a bread riot disguised as something else. There have been armed conflicts where two sides had little or no economic stress. There are battles in primate societies where the food source is abundant.

One of the rioters inside the capitol was married to a doctor. Was he under economic stress? Maybe, but there is no evidence for it.

I think Trumpism is about perceived status and social identity, which has an economic component, but is more elemental. Even a wealthy doctor or the son of a supreme court judge can think his identity is being challenged...even if his bank account is fine and his job secure. No one is going to riot if he thinks he may go broke 10 years from now...

But he may riot if he thinks his 'status' and cultural beliefs are being attacked by an imaginary enemy. Especially when he’s been whipped into a frenzy by a charismatic charlatan.

The man who beat the police officer to death in D.C. was radicalized by ideological demagogues. Was that economic? I don’t think so.

The FEAR of economic distress is enough for some to take drastic action. Some of their emotion may not be related to economic well-being, but it is. Regarding status, losing status would lead to losing opportunities for advancement and economic standing, some fear. Regarding religion, some fear the lack of good Christian values would lead to societal breakdown, lawlessness, crime, etc. Some fear that LGBTQ people, immigrants, or any minority groups would bring bad values, cause societal breakdown, moral breakdown, crime, property values down, "white flight," business closures, job losses, etc. I mean, you get the picture. These people may be preaching about "moral fiber" and "freedom." But when it comes down to it, all they want is their hometowns not to become another Detroit! We are not an evolved species in many fundamental and visceral ways. Most of our senses and emotions aren't that far removed from those of our cave-dwelling ancestors whose sole purpose in life was not get eaten by lions in the plains of Africa.

We used to place our ideologies above all else, even our economic well-being. E.g. pyramids were built at tremendous cost just to worship deities. That would never happen nowadays. No nations, even the most religious ones, would bankroll such enormous projects just for religious worship.

[Wickerman]

This is just so incredibly unbelievable.
McConnell and his Republican party are largely responsible for this mess, they are the one's who enabled Trump. They have said nothing for 4 years while he runs wild, some have even joined in and encouraged him.

Republicans have knowingly lied to the press & public on Trumps behalf, and yet, this despicable outfit are preferring to stand back and let the Democrats clean up the s**t they have created. This is a Republican problem, it is their party that is fractured and crumbling under dishonesty, deception, and outright lies, yet none of these spineless discredited pseudo politicians are prepared to fix their own dung heap.
They should loose their status as a credible political party.

[YomRippur]

I recall the GOP was considering reaching out more to Latinos and blacks in the 2016 campaigns due to changes of demographics in the country. Then Trump happened and put the kibosh on that. They may have to reach out again because the Trump base has shown to be too toxic. I mean, a poll showed 45% of Republicans (in the population, not just in Congress) supported the Capitol demonstrators, and 43% opposed. They can't have such a destruction base, whom the GOP has to keep appeasing in order to stay in office, without causing destruction in the party too.

[Varqm]

This is just so incredibly unbelievable.
McConnell and his Republican party are largely responsible for this mess, they are the one's who enabled Trump. They have said nothing for 4 years while he runs wild, some have even joined in and encouraged him.

Republicans have knowingly lied to the press & public on Trumps behalf, and yet, this despicable outfit are preferring to stand back and let the Democrats clean up the s**t they have created. This is a Republican problem, it is their party that is fractured and crumbling under dishonesty, deception, and outright lies, yet none of these spineless discredited pseudo politicians are prepared to fix their own dung heap.
They should loose their status as a credible political party.

Agreed.Clear.Then they wave their patriotic flags and preach about their religious ways.Awful.

[Varqm]

A curious observation about the profession politician.

Trump did not have any experience in politics before he became head politician,the president.So basically it uses the ad "Help Wanted No Experience Required ".That's what the Republicans used.So we had a politician doing job training in the White House in 2016.
But if it was a "higher" profession like head truck driver,head barber or head cook "at least 2-5 years Experience Required",don't even come if none.

The profession should be regulated like lawyers with the state bar?