Richard III & the Car Park

[RivkahChaya]

Of course. However, it's my understanding that in addition to just keeping an eye on the women, the royal laundry kept an eye on their menstrual cycles. People have known a lot about timing and conception, as well as the typical number of days in a pregnancy, and the fact that babies born early tended not to fare well.

When a woman who was in the public eye cheated, she had to be having sex with her husband as well, right around the time she would have been ovulating, in order to get away with passing the baby off as his when it wasn't.

Except, of course, if one is to believe stories where a family in power deliberately brought in a surrogate for a king who couldn't "perform," in order to stay in power. You'd think that a nephew by a brother would do just as well, but I guess there sometimes was an interest in hanging on to land given as a dowry.

But at any rate, mDNA is better for other reasons.

[Jenni Shelden]

its all a publicity stunt to trick the vulnerable into visiting Leicester

[RivkahChaya]

You've kidding, right? eventually, someone's going to have to produce something-- it's not like a couple of guys dug up a skeleton in their backyard, claimed it has a curved spine, and Hey! we have Richard! come and look, for five pounds a glance, no photos.

Not to mention that someone is apparently paying for DNA tests, and for chain of custody on the swab from the guy in Canada, which probably means that someone from each lab will fly out to him, take the swab, and fly back with it in carry-on.

I can't believe there are enough tourist dollars to justify that.

ETA: Richard III was a real person, and ended up somewhere; this isn't like claiming to have found the body of King Arthur.

[Steve S]

its all a publicity stunt to trick the vulnerable into visiting Leicester

I only came here to visit Bosworth 20 years ago..........

[Phil H]

And Steve, if you visted Bosworth Field 20 years ago, you probably went to the WRONG SITE!!!

Good battlefield centre though - I went soon after it opened, so probably even better now.

Do you know Kirby Muxloe Castle? Lord Hastings unfinished residence. Lovely place.

By the way, I have the skeletons of King Arthur, Robin Hood, Uncle Tom Cobbley and Alladin in my garage. Just writing King Arthur's diary to prove its him, then will unleash on the world.

Phil H

[Steve S]

The Battlefield centre as redone a couple of years back is absolutely spiffing!(the older one was good,but this is better)...Yes,I know Kirby Muxloe well(keep trying to get the site for a re-enactment,but EH are so skint....)..On Battlefield location,even then the Daddington location was mooted in convincing arguements,it's the recent finds seem to have made it the favourite!

[RivkahChaya]

I'd totally go to that, and normally, I hate battlefield sites as tourist attractions. You couldn't get me to go to a (US) Civil War site for love or money.

Last time I was in England, I saw Stonehange, did a Ripper tour, and also looked around some decidedly non-touristy East End places, to see areas mentioned in books. I also saw several plays, went to used bookstores (this was pre-internet) and went to Wales, because I read How Green Was My Valley when I was 12, and loved it.

Out of curiosity, Phil, if you won a free trip to the US, what would you want to see? And name anything you want, even though you can't really see the Times Square, the Alamo, Mt. Rushmore, and the Redwood forest in one trip.

[Steve S]

For a practical US trip for me,it's got to be Lexington/Concord,Salem,Ticonderoga and Saratoga......We did a Virginia/Maryland one,so now it's time to go north.........

[Jenni Shelden]

In the sense that I dont believe for one second its Richard the third no im not kidding.

What local story would you like to believe. How about the one about him being thrown in the river.

Also I think its far more likely a monk type person is buried in the prime spot on the church, asuming thats where he'd be if he were there seems a bad assumption. Certainly checking for hunchbacks elsewhere might be advisable.

Im sick of hearing about it

[RivkahChaya]

For a practical US trip for me,it's got to be Lexington/Concord,Salem,Ticonderoga and Saratoga......We did a Virginia/Maryland one,so now it's time to go north.........

I presume you mean Salem, Mass., of the witchcraft trial fame, but much else as well (Cotton Mather, one of the witchcraft trial judges also instituted the first public vaccination program during a smallpox outbreak), like the Hawthorne "house of seven gables," but since everything else you mention is a battle site, I wondered if you meant Old Salem, NC, which is where all the War of 1812 sites pretty much are. Probably not, since NC is far out of your way, just asking, because I know Americans who don't know Salem, MA from Old Salem, NC. Of course, I know Americans who can't find their own home state on a US map, but that's another post.

[RivkahChaya]

In the sense that I dont believe for one second its Richard the third no im not kidding.

Well, it is true that scoliosis is more common than people realize, mainly because for the last 50 years, anyone in the US, Canada, or Europe, and anyone in the upper classes in Japan, China, and most S. American countries has had in treated in adolescence, so you don't see "hunchbacks" anymore, so finding a very old skeleton with scoliosis isn't all that shocking.

Also, since we haven't seen pictures of the skeleton (or, I haven't found any online), we have no idea how severe or advanced this particular person's curvature was, so we don't have orthopods chiming in with opinions on just how disabled this person would have been in the last year or so of life. I actually have a cousin who is an orthopod, and I'd forward her a pic, if I had one. I know her first answer would be "I don't diagnose people I haven't met," but I could probably get a rough answer with several "maybes" out of her, if I promised not to use her name.

Scoliosis, FWIW, is the evolutionary price of upright walking. So is painful childbirth. But anyway-- we don't really have all that great a support structure; we have very heavy heads on nothing but a couple of vertebrae, and not even very muscular necks, relative to other primates. Then, we have heavy shoulders, rib cages, and organs, all north of the lumbar region, and nothing but a flexible spine to support it in an upright position.

But I'm way off the point.

Some people who are in a position to know think this could be Richard, because an awful lot of money has been put into the project, and I don't think it's just an investment in tourism, because I really doubt they'll make it all back.

Also, there's a big divot in the floor where my jaw hit it, when I heard that you guys had built a parking lot over a medieval church in the first place.

[Monty]

The money was raised, I believe, via donations to the society and university funds put aside for digs in general.

As for the allegation that this was a stunt to boost tourism, the fact that monies wÍll not be recouped is evidence that this was not the reason for the dig.

Richard III has a strong connection to the City, and is a major part of its history. To dismiss this as a stunt really shows that you do not understand its importance to the people of Leicester.

As for building a car park on the site, well I suggest you do a lil background research on the site and its development over the years, coupled with the historical facts.

Monty

[Jenni Shelden]

i was joking about it being a stunt as I made clear a minute ago.

I dont think i've hidden the fact that I dont think its Richard the 3rd.
I know a lot of people do. I will wait to see proof - this however i doubt is possible after all this time. So i'll just have to be annoyingly out of synch with the rest of you.

I didnt mention the car park, obviously I am well versed in the history of Leicester, hence my comment about the river.

chill - this is pub talk!

Jenni

[Monty]

Apologies Jenni,

My post wasn't aimed at you, honest.

Monty

[Jenni Shelden]

Neil,
no worries, maybe it is I who needs to chill?

Jenni